Breivik testimony April 19, 2012
Oslo District Court 04/19/2012
[04/19 This post will be updated]
Google translation [edited for clarity]:
Read Thursday’s first part of prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh and Svein Holden questioning by Anders Breivik Behring below:
VG: – The four trial expert is in place in court. The same state – and defense attorneys.
Comment from Dennis VG Ravndal: Breivik talking briefly with Lippestad as he enters. It looks like they are discussing.
VG: – Breivik has arrived in Courtroom 250 He speaks with a lawyer Lippestad accompanied by policemen.
Comments from VG Morten Hopperstad: Breivik has arrived saddle 250 in Oslo Courthouse. Arrestforvarerne lock of his handcuffs, but he dropped his trademark against tilrørerbenken – fascist-greeting. Mass murderer descendant thus required from manager Trond Henry Blatt Man Support Group 22 July.
VG: – The judges now come in and sit down. – Breivik be taken off the handcuffs and has not done his extreme right message in right before he sits in the witness box. Breivik did not do this after talking with Lippestad.
Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen: – The court is set.
Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen: – We continue the prosecutor’s examination of the defendant.
VG: – Breivik takes place in the witness box.
Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen: – Be so good prosecutor.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Breivik today is what you and I to talk. I was thinking today that address the situation from 2006 and talk about Masonic lodge and as your financial situation at that time. After that we go over to the period in which you moved back home to your mother in the summer. Talk about computer games and then more of the compendium. After that I had planned to embark on the preparation phase and selection prior to 22 July.
Behring Anders Breivik: – Yes, all right.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Do you sit and make a note here now, and that you brought with you any papers, you can tell what it is for someone or?
Behring Anders Breivik: – There are two things that I want to go through during the day. One is the comments of the head psychiatric report made by Asbjornsen and Moe. The other is radikaliseringspunkter that should be most important to you.
prosecutor Svein Holden – I hear what you say but when it comes radikaliseringspunktene I do not think we have so much focus on it as you wish. But it can be your defender.
Behring Anders Breivik: – Yes. But it’s only now three days of re-and when will I then have time to explain the most important?
prosecutor Svein Holden – I think probably we will have time for that on Monday, that is. And the other issue you brought up, the first forensic psychiatric statement, we will also make time for it, because I agree, it’s an important point.
Behring Anders Breivik: – When do you do it?
prosecutor Svein Holden: – It is possible that we arrive at the first report today also. We’ll see whether it is appropriate to include something about it then. Sounds nice out? [Breivik says it's OK] – I mentioned this with the Masonic lodge first. We know that you had the first meeting there in January 2006. can you tell about the occasion that you had membership there?
Behring Anders Breivik: – No, I just wanted to be a member of the Masonic lodge since I was 17-18 years, and the reason is that it is a Christian organization that has taken many European traditions. and it is not really the main basis for that I wanted to join.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Can you describe a bit how you became a member?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It’s 24-year age limit but the basis that I joined, I came in contract with my femme education, he was one of my mentors.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – So that was what was … he was the one who got you into the lodge?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Yes, you must have two sponsors to come in, and he was the one.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Who was the other then?
Behring Anders Breivik: – There was another person that I did not know but that he knew very well.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – You said that this was a desire from 17-18 years old and be a member there. Did you get any input from others that it was an appropriate membership to have?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Yes, I did it. It is a militant nationalist who recommended me to join, and I’ve written a bit about it in the compendium.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Can you tell us a bit more about the situation, who it was and the background?
Behring Anders Breivik: – What I have written in the compendium is that it was a person who recommended me to join. Beyond that I do not want to comment.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – When was this happening? [Breivik: I do not wish to comment.] Was it in London?
Behring Anders Breivik: – There can vote there. It was during that period.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – The militant nationalist, he said the reason was that you should become a member? =
Behring Anders Breivik: – It was probably the reason I gave earlier. That it is a Christian organization that has taken a part traditions that no one else has taken care of. That alone, in addition to that there are many interesting texts in the Masonic library is enough to want to join.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – How did your membership? Black is the expectations?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I was never particularly active in the Masonic Order. The reason was that I had completely different priorities and I looked at the Masonic order more as a hobby. So it was not a priority.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – The nationalist that you referred to said, according to you that it was important to make use of the library. Did you know?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I got access to a lot of fabric from the Masonic order but much material was available on the internet. So I do not think I was at the library once.
Behring Anders Breivik: – If I had been active, so I had possibly been in the 6th extent, but I was very inactive, so it was nothing more than a few meetings. Less than five.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – But yet you have taken a picture of you in the uniform of the Masonic lodge in the compendium, is that right?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Yes that’s right. And it’s okay to explain a bit about it. As I mentioned earlier, the 100 points that I have emphasized in connection with the marketing phase to make it harder for European media to make me morbid. The image from the Masonic Order is one of the things I’ve done that the media should not portray me as an introvert and retarded person.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – That’s what I thought to hear about the Masonic lodge. You closed the sale of these fake diplomas during the first half of 2006. Can you tell us a little about your financial situation at this time?
Behring Anders Breivik: – 2006 ‘. In 2006, I had probably 6 to 700.00 in the account, possibly … So I had 300,000 in cash, as my fortune was probably a million at that time. – I think it was a regular bank account. There were between 500 and 700,000 respectively. Perhaps 300,000 in cash.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – These 300,000 in cash, which you kept them?
Behring Anders Breivik – I kept it in a safe.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – I think I saw a safe in the pictures from your room.
Behring Anders Breivik: – I had two safes in the room.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Just under one million, all your funds, I understand you correctly then?
Behring Anders Breivik: – At the time it was there.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – How would you describe your cash situation? Might hear a little silly when you said you had to NOK 300,000 in cash, but still.
Behring Anders Breivik: – My cash situation was excellent. You’re certainly on the liquidation of E-commerce group. In Norway it is unfortunately the case that it is cheaper to have a controlled bankruptcy rather than to liquidate it, partly because of the auditor’s costs. By turning the bankrupt I saved a lot of money.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Yes, for E Commernce Group was forcibly dissolved? [Breivik: It went bankrupt yes. But it gives a wrong impression. The reason was no liquidity problem, but to save approximately 100,000 million that otherwise would have gone to the accounting and auditing costs] – These 6-700000 that you had on the account and as you said you thought it was a bank account … Which account do you think it might have been?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Yes, that is, it’s possible it was on the north online account, a brokerage account. It may have been a bank account, I do not remember.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Nordnet account, what is that? I’m not that good at trading.
Behring Anders Breivik: – It is a repository that is associated with a brokerage ..
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What is it that separates it from a regular bank account, then?
Behring Anders Breivik: – So it’s good for Norway … then everything will be well under the Bank Guarantee Fund. The only difference is that a conventional bank … you get better rates there. But there is an escrow account.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Had you invested any money in stocks at this time? [Breivik says he does not remember this] – I looked at it last night, you know, so I bet I noticed a company called Suncom Wireless Attitude. Tell us a little about it.
Behring Anders Breivik: – It is a mobile company in the U.S., and I was a shareholder with a year maybe, and it was probably a position that I came out from the break-even, perhaps.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Was that it?
Behring Anders Breivik – I seem to remember that it may have been “break even”, but I can not remember.
Behring Anders Breivik: – There can vote, yes. I think I had the record company that I transferred to a private person, possibly. – It was primarily the shareholding. I do not recall that there were other means.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – How much money did you put on that company?
Behring Anders Breivik: – How much money I had put on the company? [Holden: - Yes, that is, invested in the company.] – I had not invested anything in the cupboard sold. It was a company that received substantial revenues Brentowwd Limited Solutions. As was registered in the Bahamas. I transferred large sums to the Baltics and used Brentowwd Solutiopns Limited to transfer money to the E-Commerce Group. – As thus the company was just a legal identity, which I used to launder money from the Bahamas.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – The company I wonder, is this Suncom Wireless Holding. Your shareholding in this company, how much was it worth?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Perhaps 500,000. – As you said in the place that you had 600-700000 dollars on account?
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Does that mean that you had money in the account was in this company?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I do not remember very well. Maybe.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Maybe. How was it doing that?
Behring Anders Breivik: – What I expected to happen, happened. I bought the company, and expected that it would be acquired by Vodafone or any other company? – It happened but not with the gains I had calculated.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Was there anything a gain? – The share price, it was at some point suspended from trading?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Not that I can remember, but it is possible.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – We will come back to this later, Judge. This is something we’ve focused on lately, but we come back to it later.
Behring Anders Breivik: – Yes, you can vote.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – So, the share was first opened for business again July 2007. – You said you had a big part of your funds in this company. How do you perceive the situation?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I would never have liquidity problems. I had a cash balance of more than 300 000 If one considers what is in the media gets the impression that I moved home and hired with my mother because I had company, went bankrupt. I wanted to conserve my funds but not because of liquidity problems. I would not pay 15,000 dollars for an apartment in the Frogner.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – As I understand you, you also recalled that trade in this stock was halted at some point. What did you do?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I remember being very shocked. [Holden: - Because you had a lot of money there?] Absolutely, so I was really worried. – I’m a pretty risk pervert. I’ve taken a lot of risk in the past. But I was very worried, but it loosened up pretty good.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Did you know that all your money was lost?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I was very worried. [Holden: - What do you mean?] If I had … No, I did not think they were lost.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What did you think when …?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I do not remember, I have had positions in hundreds of companies.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – You say you had a fortune of one million, and let’s say you had half invested in this company. So you sit there in December, and the trade stopped.
Behring Anders Breivik: – I do not remember that it happened once, before you said it. I remember there was something, it’s possible it was suspended, but … I have had hundreds of positions in companies, and …
prosecutor Svein Holden: – But there was something special about this company here? Well …
Behring Anders Breivik: – The special was that I expected it to be bought by a competitor. There is nothing to watch. One is an investor in a company. It is not something that worried me greatly.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – If half the wealth is in a company that suddenly no it is not allowed to trade more, and you are really worried that they may be lost (…)
Behring Anders Breivik: – I do not remember how I reacted. I knew I had a position of SunCom, but it is a long time ago, and I think if I had been traumatized by it, so I’d probably remember it much better.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – How would you describe your trading? Were you a long term investor, or was it more like that short-term trades you were doing?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It depends on. It was well short. But my shares speculative thought I had a great loss. I think I lost 2 million. According to you, I lost only 360,000.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Drive to the day-trading?
Behring Anders Breivik: – In certain periods, so I did.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Was that what you were doing the most with? [Breivik: - exception.]
Behring Anders Breivik: – There were two periods I was active stock speculation. [Holden is very interested in the accused's financial situation around 2006]
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Okay, then I think we can leave that subject, but we will come back to it. You have already told a little about why you move to Hoff Road. (…)
Behring Anders Breivik: – I lived in an apartment in Tiedemann street. It was the period where I would start putting together the compendium. Before that, I should take a sabbatical to do what I have dreamed all his life, who is playing Warcraft hardcore for a year. To do that, I had to try to conserve funds. – So. The only responsible to do was to conserve funds. Then rented a room with my mother and paid 3500 crowns. But I might as well continue to bp at Frogner and paid 15,000 dollars a month, but then I had spent more money on it, selvfølgeilg
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Did you have any fresh inflow of capital after you moved back home to mother?
Behring Anders Breivik: – As I already said I had a contact holding, so it was no problem.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – But you earned any money after you moved back home to mother?
Behring Anders Breivik: – After I closed down the company, I have been living on savings.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Have you received any form of state benefit schemes?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I have never received a dime in my whole life, the state social security or benefits. For I am opposed in principle to go on welfare or benefit plans.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – You said you would treat yourself to a sabbatical. What gave rise to the desired?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It is well that I actually dreamed about it all my life – to take at least a sabbatical and play. People are different, some want to take a year off and travel around the world, others want to take a year off to play golf [smiles].
prosecutor Svein Holden: – When was the desire awoke?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It has been there all the time. From 2002 to 2006, I worked an average of 12-14 hours each day. I have worked incredibly hard and much. I think why I deserved a year to do what I wanted. especially for the forthcoming so-called suicide attack, that I had tino back. As a martyr estate gift.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – So does it mean when you now characterize it as a martyrdomdomsgave, that you had already decided to conduct a violent reaction.
Behring Anders Breivik: – Yes, in 2006.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – World of Warcraft, when did you acquainted with the game?
Behring Anders Breivik: – One of my employees in Russia played a little WoW, I had played three-ERN few years earlier, between 2002 and 2006, I had not undt myself to play in any appreciable degree to play World of Warcraft.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Decided you immediately that you have a whole year, or were there thoughts of a shorter period first?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It was not really the point that I thought I’d play until I actually got tired, I would take it as it comes. But it was the starting point: that I would play until I got tired.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – You heard the judge’s questions to me the first day that this game is violent?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I played Modern Warfare and Call of Duty, which is a war simulator. A fantasy game that is not violent at all. a strategy game. To work with many others to overcome challenges. Very social game. Mistake to look at it as an asocial games, perhaps the most social games of all. It can be compared to Facebook.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – This is a little unknown to the court, can you tell us about how communication takes place?
Behring Anders Breivik: – So, you create a team of players who prøbver to overcome challenges where you need 25 people. So one establish a team of 50 people, may meet several times a week from approximately at 20-00. – It requires a high level of precision and synchronous collaboration.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – How are the players communicate with each other?
Behring Anders Breivik: – You can communicate through normal chat, otherwise we use Ventrillo, a common communication system, which works a bit like Skype, that you have a headset and talk to each other.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – In principle there are perhaps 25 people who can talk to each other simultaneously, correct?
Behring Anders Breivik: – That is correct. There is a space where people meet. Then there is a team leader who gives orders to others. Under him he has people who take specific tasks. It is dependent on a high communication.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Can you tell us about your time spent on this game this year?
Behring Anders Breivik: – In that year, so I played maybe 16 hours per day. [Holden: - Wow, it sounded a lot!] There was a lot. – Only playing and sleeping.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What about other things up?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It is a year that I wanted to spend on it. It was a dream I had, so I wanted to do it.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What about the studies in this period? You drew quite a large amount of hours. – So this year you studied nothing? [Breivik says no to this]
Behring Anders Breivik: – I know that it is important for the prosecution and the media and focus very much on WoW. It is pure entertainment, it has nothing to do with 22 July to do. Some people like to play golf, others sail. It’s not a world you are immersed in, it’s just a hobby.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – And as I interpret you to mean that you would rather not spend any time on the compendium in this period?
Behring Anders Breivik: – This year I did not, no.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – As from summer 2006 to summer 2007, you had not started in the compendium?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I may have begun as far as the preparation of the foundation of the compendium in 2007, maybe. I had a point that I worked on with, so …
prosecutor Svein Holden: – How did your surroundings at this year then?
Behring Anders Breivik: – They reacted with shock and disbelief. One of the reasons it was convenient that year was that I knew there would be an impending action. It was convenient that I isolated myself in that period. To implement what I have done I could not have a network that was close to me. I could not have friends close. Before that I had been very social and lived a normal life. Friends and family reacted with shock and dismay.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What about your mother, then, that you lived with?
Behring Anders Breivik: – She reacted the same way.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Did you tell her what you did? [Breivik: I said that I should set aside time for what I did.] – What about the KT network up? Did they know about the Sabbath?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I have talked to police about it, and I will not comment on it more than I did.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – they considered you as a dropout the knight?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Maybe.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What did you think about it?
Behring Anders Breivik – I felt it was important to do so.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Commented it back to them?
Behring Anders Breivik: – To a certain extent, but I did not really understand it. It was not easy as a hobby such as golf and sailing.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – After this year was gone, did you take some more time on WoW then?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Yes, when there came an expansion, so I spent some time on it. [Holden: - What is it?] Thus, an expansion pack, which they brought on two occasions afterwards. There was one instance in 2010, then “Cataclysm” came, and when I spent some time on it. – And when I played a bit with the friends I had there and checked the contents. I have spent some time on it as a hobby after the Sabbath, but I spent much less time on it.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – In one period we have been printing so you can see in November 2010 to 4 February 2011. Then you have an average of six hours per day?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I think probably you should concentrate it to the first part. I played a few intense weeks to check the new content pack. It was not distributed in such a long period.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Do you remember how you spent New Year’s Eve, the last New Year’s Eve before you came, before you performed 22 July?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I know where you want to go. [Breivik laughs] You want to do what you can to ridicule me. But in the stage I wanted to prepare myself mentally to carry out a suicide attack, and when the friendship is not very high.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – I particularly noted the fact that you played over 17 hours this New Year’s Eve? [Breivik say yes and smile now at Holden's questions]
Behring Anders Breivik: – I have been quite social over the last year before the operation. I have attached a lot and hard. When I did other things I did it thoroughly. I understand that you only emphasize the things that puts me in a bad light, but it is important to see the whole.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Do you feel yourself that you had a problem in the sense that you spent too much time on this?
Behring Anders Breivik: – No, I think it was within the limits I set for myself.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – You said somewhere that this has no impact on 22 July. If it had any significance for the compendium, for example?
Behring Anders Breivik: – So it is an assertion by the prosecution that I have taken the word “justice” from WoW, but it’s wrong. I have used justituarius, which is the term for the highest judicial leader in Norway. A title in the UK and Norwegian system. A derivative that the Latin word that means man of the law. Do not take it from WoW, but from the Norwegian and British legal system. – But I know that in World of Warcraft, there are hundreds of titles, and I know that one of them is “justice”, but that’s not where I got it from.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – You mentioned yourself that you had played other computer games, such as Modern Warfare and Call of Duty [Breivik: - It is the same game.] It’s the same game, yes.
Behring Anders Breivik: – It is a so-called “first-person shooter” games. It is simply a war simulator. I have not liked those games, but it’s good for exercise’s sake. For example, the Red Army in China are using this in their simulation and it is a war simulator that is used by armed forces around the world. It was the purpose of using the time on it.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Can you tell more about how you used it? I see that you created a user account 18 January 2010, and then it registered an average running time of ten hours per month for 1 year and 4 (??) months.
Anders Behring Breivik: – As I just described, that it is simply a war simulator, you can get an idea of how the term systems work, you can try to accumulate experience in the long term systems, it is the greatest advantage, for you will of course not recoil when you shoot. But if you practice the recoil shooting range, so you can work out long-term systems. There are many different systems you can use.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – The term system that I used to Utøya was a holographic sighting system that is represented through the game [Modern Warfare]. – Was it a conscious choice that you selected the same type of view that you used in Modern Warfare? [Among other things, answer Breivik]
Behring Anders Breivik: – The first came as a result of the other. I did not run the system that cost 12,000 kroner because I played the game, but practiced it as a result of buying term system. It is important to get it in the correct order.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Was there any particular scenarios you worked on beyond what you now told of sighting system?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I have just written a little about it in the compendium. [Holden - You smile] It was a situation …. [Holden: - Is this something to smile about?] No.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – If we take a step to the side. There are no survivors here on Utøya, how do you react to what you say about the sighting system?
Behring Anders Breivik: – They respond well in a natural way, with horror and disgust.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Why do you think they react that way?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Why should I not believe it?
prosecutor Svein Holden: – In a context like that … [Holden lets Breivik reply]
Behring Anders Breivik – I smiled because it was very obvious what you meant to say. It was not the content of what we talked about, but your obvious intentions.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – If we go back to the scenarios you’ve trained on, tell me about it?
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What is a pincer maneuver?
Behring Anders Breivik: – People are trapped in the area of the two flanks, and you will have to fight their way through the weakest flank. – [Holden: - How is trained on that scenario?] It was simply frontal assault on one of the flanks, a total of six people at once.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What were your conclusions on the basis of …?
Behring Anders Breivik: – The conclusion was that it was 100 percent chance of failure. Mon trained, I calculated not to be surrounded by two Delta teams. But I calculated two conventional law enforcement officers. I tried to calculate the chance of survival based on the approach you used.
prosecutor Svein Holden – This scenario that you have suggested, did you ever thought about in which situation could occur? – All right. Then we immediately go on to talk about something else.
Behring Anders Breivik: – What I calculated with, when I had parked the car outside the government building, so I figured that it would turn full alarm at once, that there had been three to four armed persons at once, and that I had to fight myself out of it with a pincer movement. – I considered the probability of surviving government building and get away from it alive as less than 5 percent. I had trained to get out of that situation. It was the simulation.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – Now Holden asked you about the TV game, and you’ve talked about what I perceive as an attack from the Delta or the police. Were there other things you had seen you? We know that you ended up on Utøya.
Behring Anders Breivik: – I went through the regular shooting training, to be as good a marksman as possible. I’m talking about regular recruit training, and use of the term systems, which can be done largely in Modern Warfare.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – Okay, so if we keep the shell away the physical training with weapons. When you play this game, I’ve never played it before so I do not know, you train to shoot and hit and stuff, right?
Behring Anders Breivik: – You are training to use the term systems, then you will become an experience with it.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – What kind of experience is what you get then?
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – What were the goals in this game?
Behring Anders Breivik: – The objectives are byget up so that there are many different missions, hundreds, and there are a few of those missions that can be compared to, what to say, attacks in reality. This is why it is used by many armies in the world. It is amazing to acquire experience.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – But the goal, when you talk about possibly shooting down another person. [Breivik confirmed.] In that game so you can practice shooting down various targets, and then it can be persons.
Behring Anders Breivik: – Yes, that’s right. It is a war simulator that simulate shooting other people. The concept of the game.
Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh: – Did you learn anything from it?
Anders Breivik Behring: – As I said in the place, you gain experience in the use of the term systems.
Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh: – But what you simulated in the game, it was something you did use for later?
Anders Breivik Behring: – What then? No, first I assumed not to survive the government building … [Interrupted by Engh]
Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh: – Did you experience some of the experience of this Utøya?
Anders Breivik Behring: – If you know of a holographic sighting system is constructed in such a way that you could give it to your grandmother and she would become a top marksman. It is designed for everyone. It requires little training to use it in an optimal manner.
Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh: – But you were on an island you were on Utøya, it was something that was simulated in the game, the setting? I do not know, because I have not played it.
Anders Breivik Behring: – You can not do more than what I just described [- Engh, so just a view ..... (get confirmation from Breivik)]
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Now you’ve told us a little about computer games. You have said that the training increased your experience. You trained with firearms in any other way?
Anders Breivik Behring – I trained with the rekylltrening Løvenskjold Railway. [Holden: What is rekylltrening?] – I bought a rifle, a Ruger Mini 14, which is .223 caliber, the same as the Norwegian army, 5.56, when you go just on the field, it is a target 100 yards away, and when you train you up on accuracy, and you get used to the recoil effect has.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Ehm … okay .. how often were you on the range?
Anders Breivik Behring: – Not many times. Only four times maybe.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – I see you join in Oslo Pistol Club in June 2010?
Anders Behring Breivik: – It must be specified that what I am talking about now it was a rifle training, and in addition to what it’s shotgun training that I’ve been on maybe six times, and in addition to it’s gun training that I have been perhaps 25 times.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – I see you’ve been shooting training in Oslo gun club from June 2010 to March 2011. – These 25 times in Oslo gun club, what did you do?
Anders Breivik Behring: – It is extremely difficult to get permission to buy a gun in Norway, so it is required that you do not drop the magazine and meets the requirements to be an active shooter. So I almost had to get a confirmation from a shooting head there, and then I had to shoot so many times. Had to shoot much at all be able to apply.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – And for that Glock you later acquired, it was a legitimate purchase?
Anders Breivik Behring: – It was a legitimate purchase, yes.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – You have mentioned three weapons. It was Ruger and Glock you had with you on Utøya. Did you name these weapons?
Anders Breivik Behring: – We know also from our own Norse history. It was customary to give the weapons name, and I thought I’d pass on a great European tradition. – In the setting you are asking now sounds completely out bizzarr [Holden: I do not object to it]. European heroes who have fought against the Islamic occupation. A leader from Andalusia named El Cid (…) a great historical brand in Spain and he had a sword that he gave a name. He is not the only warrior in Europe that has a weapon a name. There are many who have it.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – What is the name you gave your weapons?
Anders Breivik Behring: – The rifle I called Gungnir is Odin’s magical spear that comes back after you have thrown it. I called Glock Mjølnir, the hammer warrior Thor. The support vehicle is the vehicle from the first bombebil other bombebil. The vehicle I gave the name of Sleipner. There are eight-legged horse of Odin.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – These names, it was just something you used these tools or took it too and marked them in any way?
Anders Breivik Behring: – Yes, I noticed them, I wrote it in runes on all three sites.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – So then you use three norrønne name that you noted on these items with runes?
Anders Breivik Behring: – What is the reason for the reference to the Norse? – As I said, if you go back to the European war history had many of our ancestors a tradition of naming weapons by name. That’s how you try to describe it, it bizzarr and insane, but it is a European tradition to make it
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Do you think it’s still great?
Anders Breivik Behring: – I think tradition is great.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – It is not pompous? [Breivik says it obviously is pompous]
Anders Breivik Behring: – I think the tradition is a great European tradition. [Holden discuss with the judge of when the break should be.]
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Now we get a pretty significant change theme. Then we go over to the compendium. It was we examined yesterday, when you describe something of the situation when you got this assignment. It was a bit like bits and pieces, I think, so can you describe a little bit more about it?
Anders Breivik Behring – I was asked to write the compendium. And I wrote the compendium. – In connection with the meeting in London I was asked to write a compendium and I’ve written a bit about already, and I have not written much more about it, and would not comment on it beyond that.
Prosecutors Svein Holden – I could have imagined something more comprehensive. – But can you explain to me why you do not want to talk about just that? – Yesterday we got the answer many times you did not want to comment on it …
Anders Breivik Behring – I do not want to disclose information that could lead to an arrest.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – But how the hell can about how you were asked to write kompendiemateriale contribute to arrest?
Anders Breivik Behring: – So what you focus on now, there are two percentages I do not want to talk about. I have been open for 98 percent of what is relevant now. Although it seems that I am very reluctant now, it’s because you go hard on the two percent I do not want to talk about – I will not comment on it further.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – For this is a question of the origin of the compendium. And as I understand it’s important to you. Is that right?
Anders Breivik Behring: – Complete Diet is not important for me, but it was important to me.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Okay, so we agree that the compendium is essential. Do you want it to be, to use your words, legitimacy externally?
Anders Breivik Behring: – In what way? The contents of the compendium represent more conservative direction. It is an attempt to create a foundation for the far right in Europe associated with the same ideology. There is a difference between creating a foundation and an ideology.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – But when you now say that there is a desire on your part that it should form a foundation. Will not the foundation will be strengthened if you tell us more about the origin of the compendium?
Anders Breivik Behring: – I can not see it. The importance of the compendium is the content and not oppstendighetene around.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – To put it slightly at the tip, you fear that it may be perceived as a cut and paste work that you sat at home in his bedroom and sewed together?
Anders Breivik Behring: – It is not perceived as a “cut and paste” work, it is a “cut and paste” work. Sixty percent are cut and paste. Essays I have borrowed from other writers in Europe that I believe on critical issues. Forty percent are authored by myself.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – On the other hand, if you tell us a bit more about the origin maybe it could help strengthen the perception of the message?
Anders Breivik Behring: – The purpose of the compendium is the starting point, which probably was the original title of it: “In Brace of the New Knighthood,” a book that was written by one of the most important intellectuals in Europe associated with lower risks. It was he who made the Templar identity. The compendium would be a book number two. The school legitimize the new direction, and it would explain how one can become the perfect knight, or the perfect foot soldier. It consists of three parts and was designed to provide a foundation for the development of a revolutionary high direction in Europe.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Now we come a little further, now you said some things that were interesting, you said that the book should be called “In Brace of the New Knighthood,” and you said that it would defend the crusader identity and that the would explain how you became a knight. Was it a frame you got time?
Anders Breivik Behring: – Yes, that’s right.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Were there other guidelines that were given in that regard than those you have visited?
Anders Breivik Behring: – It is the basis of the compendium that is the 50 pages that I have described, and the principle of the charts.
Anders Breivik Behring: – In connection with that meeting was in London, so I was left with about 50 pages information, and that is the basis for the compendium.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – You say you were left with about fifty pages. What is it?
Anders Breivik Behring – I’ve probably written about it in the compendium.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – I am not so interested in what you have written in the compendium.
Anders Breivik Behring: – I would not comment on it. I explained what I have been able to police, I will not comment on it further.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Is it because you do not remember it?
Anders Breivik Behring: – I remember what I have explained to the police.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – I am not so interested in what you have explained to the police, but if you remember when you got this assignment.
Anders Breivik Behring: – I remember what happened, and I have explained it to the police.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – If you have already explained it to the police you might as well say it here too, then?
Anders Breivik Behring: – After that meeting, I was left with fifty pages of information and it has been the basis of the compendium.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – You were left with 50 pages of information. Does that mean you were given 50 pages or that you wrote 50 pages?
Anders Breivik Behring: – I have written compendium that I wrote down about 50 pages of information.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Sea, you said in the interview then?
Anders Breivik Behring: – I have said that it was conveyed fifty pages of information. But I would not specify the form in which it was conveyed.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – You were left with about 50 pages. This sheaf of principles lists, came along and it was included in the 50 pages?
Anders Breivik Behring – I was left with 50 pages, including everything.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – If … when we started talking about this you said you were left with fifty pages, and received a policy list. The way I understood it, was that this came along?
Anders Breivik Behring: – When you take enough mistakes. I thought I was left with fifty pages, it included a foundation for the compendium that includes a list of principles.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – What is a principal list? A list of bullet points or something else?
Anders Breivik Behring: – Basically, it’s the prinspippene we stand for. KT Network has two main points, one is that we are an organization of European urforlk, Second, there is a crusading organization, we want to contribute to deport the majority of Muslims from Europe. It is the basis for its establishment.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Does that mean that there are two bullet points on that list?
Anders Breivik Behring: – There are many principles. [How many was it, ask about Holden] – The most important thing is that you communicated what you represent. It is irrellevant how many bullets it poses.
Anders Breivik Behring: – The two points are the reason we are sitting here today. It is the essence of what we are talking about today. There are the two most important.
Comments from VG Morten Hopperstad: Breivik rises from the chair and dishes on the shirt before arrestforvareren put him handcuffs. On the way out, he speaks with defender Geir Lippestad.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Does that mean you have more?
Anders Breivik Behring: – The most important thing is that there is an interest organization for the European peoples. As a Christian country, we want to ensure the Christian cultural framework in all countries. We support Israel’s struggle against Jihad and it is part …
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Sto also on this principle the list?
Anders Breivik Behring: – A list of principles was conveyed. That’s what we stand for. How it was passed is irrelevant. There are fifty pages of information….
Original article: Dag 4, ord for ord: Breivik latterliggjorde rettspsykiatere
Google translation [edited for clarity]:
Read Thursday’s second part of prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh and Svein Holden questioning by Anders Breivik Behring below:
Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen: – As negotiations continue, there you Holden.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Let’s see, Breivik, I leave London and go on a bit of time, you told us in the place that you were playing fulltime WoW, from the summer of 2006-2007, also said that you might could have started on the compendium of the period, but the bulk of the work was done afterwards. [Breivik says he started the compendium in 2007.]
Anders Breivik Behring – I did something, but I do not remember.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – What was the reason why you waited so long … because then it’s nearly five years after you got the job?
Anders Breivik Behring: – That is the starting point for developing a compendium is to bring you more free-years and take enough time to work out a compendium. I would use at least two years. You need an economic foundation to start. capitalization phase started in 2002 and lasted until 2006.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Where you were left with about one million. [Breivik: That is correct.] – Did you get any feedback from the KT network, that you’d start about five years later? – I do not want to comment on it. I do not comment on contacts I have had with others. – Although it can not lead to more arrests?
Anders Breivik Behring – I do not want to comment on contact. I have told what I can to the police.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Can you describe the process when you were working on the compendium?
Anders Breivik Behring: – Utggangspunktet I had some information. The first thing I did was to create an overview of the areas and points that should be covered. I made a list of the three parts. I knew it would cover a historical part, an ideological component and a military part. I wrote all these three parts from the start. Before I was finished it was 4-5000 pages. Later I shorten it down to around 1800.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – You indicated yourself a 60-40 ratio in terms of things that you obtained from others and things you have written yourself?
Anders Breivik Behring: – I am not quite sure how much, but maybe 30-40 percent, which I have written myself.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – The bulk of what is written by you, where do you find it?
Anders Breivik Behring: – In 2002 I did not feel competent to do so, no. That’s in part three. The starting point was that the compendium would cover the three areas I thought were important. When I made the list, I checked the sites authors had written something I thought was relevant at. The points that were not covered, I wrote myself.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Was it the three-team, it was from the start?
Anders Breivik Behring: – It included all the three parts, yes.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Did you feel competent to enter the military section in 2002?
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Because it is possible perhaps to wonder this collection of Serbian war heroes that give the assignment to a 23-year-old to write that part?
Anders Breivik Behring: – I have described three individuals whom I met in London, and four if you include Serb. Now puts you in a way that it refers to a large environment, but I have only described four individuals.
Prosecutors Svein Holden – I only remember the FOIL that Engh was on the go, where you specified that it was a majority in the Serbian nationalists?
Anders Breivik Behring: – I saw that word, yes. But I have referred to a person.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Do you have any thoughts that you were assigned a task you were not feeling quite competent?
Anders Breivik Behring: – Now, you describe it in a slightly pompous way, as I have done, but in principle I was asked to create a foundation and that is what I did. There is nothing more complicated than that.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – You told us a bit about the title in place, that originally it was planned that it should be called “In Brace of the New Knighthood”. What was the reason why you changed it?
Anders Breivik Behring: – Thus, as described on the cover, the title is still there. But it’s been a subtitle. I thought it was the main title was more appropriate.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – The main title can you tell us about it?
Anders Breivik Behring: – 2083 indicates a year that represents the 400 anniversary of the Battle of Vienna took place in 1683. One of the two most important battles in European history because it prevented the Ottoman Empire to subdue the whole of Western Europe. 400 years celebration.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – What about the other part of the title?
Anders Breivik Behring: – Yes, “European Decaration of Independence.” It is from an essay by a writer who calls himself Fjordman, and I thought it was appropriate.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – The 2083 has no significance in relation to what you have described as an ongoing civil war?
Anders Breivik Behring – I and many others in Europe think the conflict as time progresses, there will be a conclusion on it within a few decades. When I have chosen 2083 as a possible reference point.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Then we will see, we can take up side 952 of the compendium. [The court looking for the excerpt.] What are we looking for something here, Breivik?
Anders Breivik Behring: – There is an overview of the expected scenario in Europe is based on many political analyzes from other cultural conservatives who think the same.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – But the juxtaposition and dated in phase 1, 2 and 3, it is something you have done or are picked up by others?
Anders Breivik Behring: – Basically, it’s written by me.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – So the idea that you have a Phase 3, for example, from 2070 to 2083, there is a future vision that you have developed?
Anders Breivik Behring: – It is impossible to predict the future but it is based on the political parties that Labor does not change course and is an expected scenario. – It’s just an estimate. One should not put so much emphasis on accuracy.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – 2083, it was the working title and the hypothesis in this scenario all the way to or operated with other time estimates?
Anders Breivik Behring: – That is the essence of the message to myself and many others, is that within the next few decades, the conflict is played out now escalate, if people do not change direction. There’s no accurate time estimates.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – But you work with different time than the 2083 estimate?
Anders Breivik Behring: – I remember talking to police about an e-mail address I found on [number] 2183. There are a hundred years into the future. Whether I am the registered e-mail address to deviate from this. Maybe I had used that title before. But I remember really. It seems far in the future, but I think I have said to the police. I’m not sure.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – To create an email address called year2183, a hotmail address, which you use on blogger.com 17.10 from 2008. This address of 2183 is active on a blog. What was the reason why you were on the blog?
Anders Breivik Behring: – So, what has become known is that I have 30 e-mail addresses, and I do not think you should put too much emphasis on one e-mail address. I do not know why I chose that name. Maybe “2083″ was busy, or maybe I used it for other reasons.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – But … did you intend to use the blog to something in connection with the compendium?
Anders Breivik Behring: – It was a plan to distribute and upload compendium on several blogs. I walked away from the strategy, but I was finally away from that plan.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Here we see that 20 June, the year after, in 2009, create a new blogspot and then e-mail address in 2083. So my question is [Breivik: When was the date of the second email address?] Shed light on this somewhat by the title of the compendium?
Anders Breivik Behring: – As we said in place, then it may have been a solution, yes. I do not remember. It may have been other reasons too.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – But, it may therefore be that in June 2009, that you thought, “okay …” [interrupted]
Anders Breivik Behring: – It’s a date that marks the 500 anniversary of the battle. Maybe I thought that there were various reasons to choose a 500 – instead of 400-year anniversary.
Prosecutors Svein Holden – I see that email in 2183 came also came in 2083. Does that mean you changed the title of the compendium?
Anders Breivik Behring: – Yes, you mentioned it, yes. I do not remember why, I do not know what is the cause.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – We are concerned that so far in place, but … how important is the compendium for you?
Anders Breivik Behring: – Compendium itself contains a lot of information that sheds light on the problems Norway and Europe today. It is critical that this information is spread to others today. – The Compendium is only the framework for the information. I do not know if it answered your question?
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – No, I can also read that up for you as you said in an interview, which I have bitten me in here. The words you say 23 July last year. Here are the following. “The financing was very challenging and it took several years to earn enough money to finance it, that was my main task.” – What really happened yesterday is just the fireworks of the compendium. Does this make sense?
Anders Breivik Behring: – That is correct. The distribution of the information on the compendium was one of the most important primary motives for the operation.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – I will round this with the compendium, you said several times that the compendium is a product. What do you think the reason is that the compendium or ideology it is based not on its own, but must be produced as a glossy picture or pompous?
Anders Breivik Behring: – To ask a question. What you should have asked you about the place is why it is necessary to do something to show that knowledge. [Breivik rebuke thus keep some of his examination now and starting to get annoyed] – You should then focus on Norwegian and European media. They are political activists, not journalists. The follow-up question that you should have asked. But to take what you said about: The compendium is a compilation of several ideological directions. It represents quite a few directions ideologically. The starting point of the compendium is to try to unite the three directions in Europe; National Conservatism, national socialism and militant and orthodox Christianity. – So basically is to highlight key areas as different Europeans are concerned and try to create a bridge between the different perceptions, to fight under one banner.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – But why do you portray it so shamelessly?
Anders Breivik Behring: – When it comes to a military unit and glorification of martyrdom has been disseminated in a manner such that the probability increases that one can market traditions that are from organizations such as al-Qaeda. It is to try to push these dedicated individuals continue from where they are today. [Was it a successful strategy for Holden asks for the answer] – You make a resistance movement and create a foundation on which to build further on and the Compendium is a contribution to the foundation. It should not represent a specific ideology, but three hovedideologer and main objective next time is to bridge the gap between them.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Then Engh any questions.
Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh: – As I understand you now, would you like to create a platform with your compendium, to innovate and reach out to someone who will follow your thoughts – is it correct?
Anders Breivik Behring: – It is not correct. It is not my thoughts. I am just a seller of ideas that others have created. – I agree with those who have developed the mind, but I am just a seller of a message.
Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh: – I have though. But when yesterday was concerned about what is the reason the world and society is unfair and you are talking about radikaliseringspunkter, I have understood that it is an important premise for who you are. Is that right?
Anders Breivik Behring: – Well, it is wrong to say that society is unfair. Status in Europe and Norway is that we do not have a democracy and real freedom of speech. That’s the way we see it a ULEV clock skill. – It is with particular reference to the Norwegian press and European press. The main problem today.
Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh: – Is there a premise for your conclusion? Is what you describe now, it is an important premise for the conclusion you draw?
Anders Breivik Behring: – Well, it is one of several terms, yes, that’s right.
Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh: – So, in this compendium explains you how you have come to this. Is that right? – The premise, the writing is that right? [Breivik says yes it's true] – What do you greatly?
Anders Breivik Behring: – What is happening in Europe today, it is that we are threatened demographically, we are threatened by our ethnic and cultural identities deconstructed. I think it is so critical for the Europe and Norway is now to change course, if not then we will not survive as an ethnic group, and trust between the citizens will be degraded to such an extent that the conditions for a Norway is not present in 100 years .
Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh: – So then I realized you’re passionate about. As I wonder about is your last interview in March this year, so you say something about this that I want you to elaborate a bit. “The basis of the compendium is to help create premises that are to build at a conclusion. [Describes what's on] But that does not mean that the premises are not true. “What do you mean by this?
Anders Breivik Behring – I never said that it will create the premises. It is reported incorrectly. The ULEV injustices in Europe today, justifies the conclusion [Bejer Engh ask what the conclusion is] – The conclusion is that Norway and Europe, given that we do not have real freedom of speech or free press, we are a cultural liberal and kulturmarxistisk dictatorship. Will we become a minority and lose our ethnic group. If people do not say clearly that we will not.
Anders Breivik Behring: – I understand. It is not to create the premises. These injustices described by the authors which I have referred in the compendium. It does not mean that they support violence, or that they are against democracy.
Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh: – But from the last I read, I would ask you: What is most important to you – political change, or to use violence?
Anders Breivik Behring: – Violence is a tool to achieve a goal. Violence should only be used when no other options left. I have tried many ways to get our voice to be heard. The press in Europe and Norway censor all on the right side. It is not possible in a peaceful revolution.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Breivik, when you were finished with the compendium?
Anders Breivik Behring: – One is never finished with a compendium, it is a draft. And it is a preliminary draft. The compendium so I thought it was never finished. It can be continued by others, or … But I finished in the autumn of 2009, I think. – But I concluded that I finished in the autumn of 2009. So I included a few things in the aftermath, including the different periods, so I included the log.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Was also the military part more or less finished in autumn 2009?
Anders Breivik Behring: – It was all done so, with the exception of what I just mentioned now.
Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh: – You say the compendium is a draft, you have said that what happened 22 July was to spread this compendium. Assessed at any time to do the compendium finished before sending it out?
Anders Breivik Behring: – No, as I see it, it is not possible to be done with it … [Interrupted]
Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh: – Are you standing in for what it says or you are not sure if that’s what you stand for?
Anders Breivik Behring – I included all the information in the compendium. No, I do not agree with everything. [Engh: So you kill 77 people without having to completely agree with what is in the compendium you want to convey?] – Let me explain. What stands in the compendium, it does not represent my opinions, it represents a great many Europeans opinion, I agree with perhaps 95% of these principles. I do not agree with everything, but I was asked to create a compendium and distribute it. I do not agree with everything, there are small things I do not agree in. – You have to consider … [Engh: Concern for whom?] One must take into account the people I associated with.
Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh: – If you have no free will in this?
Anders Breivik Behring: – No, but the intention is to unite the three groups. Then you have to take into account what the other two groups want. Then you have to give up their wishes. One must try to develop resistance that has been in Europe for 2 World War II.
Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh: – So what’s in the compendium, and that you took action for 22 July, that’s what those in the KT network that is built for, but you are in for the most part, is that correct?
Anders Breivik Behring: – I stand in for the vast, vast, vast majority.
Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh: – Why do you say that there is a draft?
Anders Breivik Behring: – You should not emphasize it so much that it is a draft. There is a written document that is not fully edited.
Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh: – Did you ever thought about whether you should have this compendium completed before going into action 22 July? [Breivik: - Absolutely.] Well, why did not you? Breivik: It is your safety. Unfortunately, a Norwegian intelligence and European intelligence … They have so many resources that preclude the formation of conventional networks. We had to pay attention to it. – You felt you were about to be taken? – No, but you do know what the contents are and I have edited any of it. – Ideally, you should have some more time on you to finish everything there? (Breivik: Yes, that’s right).
Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen: – You say you had input. Who did you get that from?
Anders Breivik Behring: – From among other things, a person I am affiliated.
Comment from Dennis VG Ravndal: – You say you agree with 95 percent of the compendium. Can you say something you disagree with? asks Judge Arne Lyng. Breivik says he has given at the point of capitalism in the Manifesto. – There I’ve given to me, he said. Breivik move his eyes to judge bench while talking and looking directly at Lyng.
Judge Wenche Arntzen Elizabeth: – Is it one of those in the KT Network? There was this other person who also was told to write a compendium? [Breivik will not comment on this].
Judge Arne Lyng 11:22: – 95 percent of the contents of the compendium you agree in. Can you name something that you do not agree with?
Anders Breivik Behring – I personally capitalist oriented. But I know that to unify a wide range of individuals, then you have to give at that point, because most people are less informed about capitalism than I am. At that point, I have given for.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Breivik, we will make a small change of theme. When did you start to think about the idea of carrying out a violent reaction?
Anders Breivik Behring: – The first thoughts must have been maybe from the age of 20.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – What …. even before the Knights Templar? [Breivik confirms: - from 18 to 19 years of age.]. Can you describe this? – Describe for us your thoughts at the time.
Anders Breivik Behring: – I remember that we talked the more loosely to people about what they saw as injustices in society and I have been very skeptical of Muslim immigration. So in some settings it has been considered whether to attack the Muslims in Norway and Muslim groups. Militant nationalists are divided into two when it comes to goal: Half believed to attack Muslims and minorities. The other half is believed to attack the elite and responsibility for them. – So it is important to emphasize that there are two groups that mean something quite different among militant nationalists. For example, some supported attacks on minorities in order to harm the immigration that way. I do not agree with it. It is not Muslims’ fault that they have been invited here, there are others who stand for it. – At some point, possibly before what happened to Benjamin Hermansen in Oslo … when I shared the perception of the others that it was best to attack the Muslims in Norway. But then I changed position, and found that there were others.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Now you have told about when you started to think about it. When you decided to carry out such an action?
Anders Breivik Behring: – 2006 possibly.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – What is the reason you scheduling it?
Anders Breivik Behring: – That’s when I go undercover for the first time. I reconnoiter the government quarter in 2006, I reconnaissance on NRK-premises. I do not remember exactly what year it was. It may have been in 2006, 2007, 2008.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – What did you do something when you reconnoiter?
Anders Breivik Behring: – I thought exactly where the vulnerabilities were, it was very early stage, so I considered how an attack could be done.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Materialized it in something, anything in writing, any purchases?
Anders Breivik Behring: – In the compendium, it is purified for descriptions related to the goals. It says everything except goals. I’ve written everything except goals in case it was discovered.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – So this was just thinking? [Yes there were only plans says Breivik] – [Reading from the first forensic psychiatric report]
Anders Breivik Behring: – Before proceeding there, Holden. I have previously commented that the report is worthless. It is known by Asbjornsen and Moe, is fictional. 80% of the content is worthless. It is not true.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – But Breivik, we can not just say it like that I read up first, then comment the next?
Comment from Dennis VG Ravndal: While Holden reads from the Declaration, taking Breivik notes with rapid movements.
Comments from VG Morten Hopperstad: The prosecutor read from the first expert report which Breivik explains that he first began in 2009 to think of terrorist attacks. It goes against what the mass murderer said a few minutes ago – that he decided for the attacks in 2006. Breivik believe the report is only fiction and reiterates that it is written by Asbjørnsnen & Moe as he now calls Husby and Sørheim.
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna: Holden gets a reminder from Arntzen judge that he must speak into the microphone. Prosecutors put a little difficult position since he was reading from a binder, but now the same on the screen so that he can read from there. The sound is important since the trial transferred to 17 other courts in Norway, a publikumssal in Oslo and three press centers.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – [Holden still read from the report, about the details of the Breivik moved home to his mother and in-depth about how Breivik wrote the compendium and how he planned the different phases of the plans, which he has said in the first talks with the experts] From there, Breivik, so it may seem that the decision whether a violent action grew from 2009?
Anders Breivik Behring: – As I was on the spot, based on what they have written, what they have written. The report is worthless. I have noticed that and Moe has his own theory for what I have done and they support their theory by making up things I should have said, but has not said. Perhaps it would have been a gr to get the documents HVO conversations were taped, but they were unfortunately not. If I believe you can just ignore the report in its entirety.
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna: Holden is now Breivik clear message that he believes terrorist planning first began in 2009 – not 2006 as he claims.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – So here there is no confusion once, this is fiction? So “the plan required executions grew from 2009, he says” It is pure fiction?
Anders Breivik Behring: – It is fiction, yes.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Do you have any idea how Husby and Sørheim have the idea of writing all this? [Breivik reply to this]
Anders Breivik Behring: – The mount does not trust my explanation, therefore, supports the theory of his own to fabricate.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Shall I tell you something, Breivik. I also wonder if much of this is just pure fiction. [Breivik: - Yes, you do it?] Yes, I do. The firm GeoFarm, when was it created? [In May, 2009.] Was it an important prerequisite for implementing the action?
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna: Holden points out that the company GeoFrame was created in 2009 (used for fertilizer acquisition), and that e-mail address linked to a blog shifted from 2183 to 2083 in 2009. All that he applied for credit in the fall of that year.
Anders Breivik Behring: – Eh … yes, that was it. But before you continue: to understand why Geofarm was important … As I called the credit card acquisition phase, I had to have this company. It was I then.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Geofarm was important to carry out this operation? So there was this e-mail changed and e-mail address had been changed from 2183 to 2083. It happened in June [Breivik takes over word]
Anders Breivik Behring – I do not think you can conclude something I myself am very unsure. I would create 31 email addresses, so I do not think you should put as much emphasis on it.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – No, but then I have in mind, but I have a couple of points to, you know, that I will have comments. September-October ’09, so do what you just mentioned, obtained credit cards. Was there a defining premise?
Anders Breivik Behring: – Yes, I started on credit card debt … most probably after I had finished the lecture notes, or at least in the final phase. It was the one that marked the final phase.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – So what we have mentioned that you have logged that the compendium of autumn 2009?
Anders Breivik Behring: – The plan was always to start at the operational section when the compendium was completed. – Yes, that excludes me. – As the military part I started in parallel with the others. It took a long time because I had to write it yourself. It ended on the date you referred to.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – So did you say to Grassland in place that Modern Warfare is something you learned from? It was a premise and training for the action. It was from 18 January 2010. So we know that the first acquisition that can be linked to 22 July is a “pelikancase” that you buy 23 april 2009.
Anders Breivik Behring: – So you could say that credit cards were the start of the operational phase. The first purchases was probably a uniform similar stuff in 2009 or 2010.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Do you understand that I can start thinking about the idea that maybe was not a military part before the end of 2009?
Anders Breivik Behring: – What is your logic is that because I started the operational phase in 2009, I had only thought about violence in 2009. It’s your logic. What I have said and that is the actual realieteten. Had a phase from 2002 to 2006, the sabbatical, I would kompendiefasen before I went over to the operational phase. – There has been a plan all along and I started and I decided this in 2006. It differs little enough from your theory.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – We will later speak to Huseby and Sørheim and then hear their comments for this claim. – Regardless of when this decision was taken … Engh come in from the sidelines with a question.
Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh: – When you got this from the first declaration of 2009, I have noticed that the experts must have it from the interrogations. Where did you get that?
Anders Breivik Behring: – What I was referring to was the text on that page. They have had access to interviews so they know which point I have. So they have launched their own theory and put it up against the factual realities. [But where have they got that number from 2009, says Engh Bejer]
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna Lippestad interrupts and says that forensic report is not signed by the client and only the experts’ opinion. Prosecutors have consistently shown this report to questions about 2009. Judge Arntzen answer, however Lippestad and says she will allow to oppføgingsspørsmål Breivik at this point.
Anders Breivik Behring: – I have been told what happened to them and then Husby and Sørheim said: No, we do not believe you. So they thought that I have begun with these thoughts in 2009, they have written that I’ve said it.
Prosecutors Svein Holden – I think it was a point that Engh was up, so I will pursue it further. Where did the number 2009 from? What do you think about it?
Defense Geir Lippestad: – The prosecutor, the specialist declaration is not signed and accepted. He says that they have misunderstood him, it is wrong to move forward on it.
Anders Breivik Behring: – There is no confusion at all. [As Engh ask, also ask Holden, why 2009?] – It makes you almost ask the experts about.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Did you have mentioned 2009 in a different context to them, do you think?
Anders Breivik Behring: – It goes out of the interrogations is that I started with the operational phase in 2009, and that I then got the first thoughts of violence. – It is when their theory and the experts.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – We received your article where you pointed out 200 lies in the declaration. [Breivik: More than 200 lies] pointed out that as a lie?
Anders Breivik Behring – I started working with the op-ed, so I made a list. I started with the first meeting, this was the period when I was tvangsobservert. So I concluded that I had not time to bring everything, so I took a sample. – Because there are quite a few lies, which is pretty much increased yield. It may well be true, but if I had documented all the lies, it would become a document of 300 pages, not 38
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – When we go to what I just started. Regardless if this decision was taken. Tell us a little about what the original plan was? As you may know where I want? [Yes says Breivik]
Anders Breivik Behring: – I have considered many alternatives, but the plan was based was to make three bombs. Two of the bombs would be a ton each and the third would be at about 500 pounds.
Anders Breivik Behring: – The plan was structured so that there would be three car bombs that were followed by a firearm based operation. The plan was to use a support vehicle, which is a mini Honda, Gorilla’s called. It is a small motorcycle, which can weigh about 60-70 kg. It is a logistics vehicle, that is to run from one vehicle to another.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – If we take the bombs first. What three goals did you have your sights on?
Anders Breivik Behring: – The first two goals were very clear. One was the government quarter, the second Labour Party headquarters. The third, I was not sure. I considered many options.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – What fell down at the end?
Anders Breivik Behring – I can try to tell how I reasoned. Basically, I had great doubts about the Labour Party headquarters, because there are civilians, innocent businesses in the area. Among other things, the Norwegian Tourist Association. – And I knew that everyone in the Norwegian Tourist Association would perish if I detonated a large bomb there. I thought that there were so many better targets. The third bomb, which I thought long post transfer building, what is now called Aftenposten building. – But Aftenposten represent only a small part of the building. I calculated that there were too many civilians who were in the building. The aim was therefore unacceptable. I have considered the Parliament on several occasion for the bomb. On both sides actually. City Hall has been the goal and the Palace has been a goal. Another is that which surrounds Hansen’s bakery at the Parliamentary Quarter.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Now you have entered a number of targets [Breivik: Yes, this was with regard to the third goal. I landed at the castle. In a setting where the royal family would not be damaged. It was uaksptabelt to attack the royal family. ] – Why would it be unacceptable?
Anders Breivik Behring: – No, because the majority of nationalists and cultural conservatives is a supporter of the monarchy, including myself. Therefore I considered it as an acceptable goal.
Anders Breivik Behring: – We want to give the royal family a warning but it must be the castle without being there. The castle is Labor’s local representation that they share with government leaders worldwide. – So the goal described is more like APs official functions and not an attack on the monarchy at all.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Can you tell us about how you assessed the various goals. What was it you did? Did you tour the Parliament, the pictures on the internet, you were there and then?
Anders Breivik Behring: – When it came to the government building, I reconnaissance where a total of 80 times. In Parliament, I reconnoiter a total of 4 times. I have used the opportunity to reconnoiter in connection with meetings of the Masonic lodge.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – What have you done then, you have stood by Mason built and looked over to the Parliament?
Anders Breivik Behring: – I have considered weaknesses in the building, if it could be an old entrance that you could drive a car through. The essence of a reconnaissance is to identify weaknesses in the building and the optimal detonation inside the building or the building. – Or that you drive into the building’s courtyard. Considering all the weaknesses, as one falls down on how one chooses to do so. – It was not possible by the Parliament. It was thought also for its ministries .. one will be able to inflict much more damage to the building if they could get under the building, but I considered it too difficult. If I had done it … I consider it very difficult.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – So you ended up with the government quarter, Labor headquarters and Royal Palace. Was it an expression of a priority?
Anders Breivik Behring: – Yes, absolutely. I did not expect to survive the first goal. I had perhaps survived the Labour Party headquarters. I had considered the likelihood that small to survive longer than that.
Anders Behring Breivik: – But in case I should survive not only ministries, but the next two goals, so I planned a firearm based action, outside of Parliament, or that I lifted down this mini-motorcycle and started a firearm based action until I was killed himself. It was based on a detailed plan, which I spent a lot of time, which went on to run down from the castle down to the Blitz-house and executed as many blitzere as possible. If you survived it … – SO, the plan was to drive two blocks to Day newspaper space and execute as many Times journalists as possible. Times will be counted as a voice channel for the Labour Party. – If you survived the Times, where the likelihood was small, so the plan was to drive to the Socialist Left Party headquarters and execute as many as possible there. It was not appropriate to add more goals than that. The plan was not to surrender before the entire operation was completed. It was basically a suicide action.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – You said you had spent much time on the weapons-based part in. What was the plan in?
Anders Breivik Behring: – The planning consisted of the first purchase armor, so-called “body armor” in addition to ammunition and firearms in itself. It is very difficult to acquire armor, so I used a very long time on this armor procurement phase. – Ehm … it is described in some detail in the compendium.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – So when you talk about a long time for preparation was the acquisition of things?
Anders Breivik Behring: – In order to simply train with armor on. [Holden Where you trained with the armor on?] – I had to prepare myself to wear armor. What I did was to fill two backpacks in front and back with rocks, about 30 kg, also I went hiking with it. I did at. – And I did it in Rena, and although it looks a little strange, aroused no attention to the extent that I was discovered. How to train Mon body so that it can work with guns in a bit heavy armor.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – But then it was not the plan?
Anders Breivik Behring: – The training was a prerequisite in all cases, but it’s true that there was no plan.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – What was the reason why it was not so?
Anders Breivik Behring: – The reason was that it was difficult than I thought to construct a bomb. It took much longer to construct than I thought.
Anders Breivik Behring – I had problems with the synthesis of acid. In addition, many other processes I had problems with.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – What kind of processes, it was that was problematic?
Anders Breivik Behring: – It was the fact that I lacked the raw materials to produce enough. [Here Breivik rattles up the various ingredients he lacked] – I had great difficulty finding a method [describe the bombing substance]. But I tried many other methods before it.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Were there problems other than things related to the production process to the bomb?
Anders Breivik Behring: – Money was also a problem. They saved my funds. The last I had to transfer an amount that the guy who owns the farm. 30.000 million. After I had done it had I not (…)
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – When did you change plan, then? Or abandoned the original plan?
Anders Breivik Behring: – It was probably clear that I would not be able to make a bomb number two … In late June, maybe.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – In questioning, you have stated it to be between 30 June and 10 July, it’s true enough.
Anders Breivik Behring: – The plan was that it would only take 3-4 weeks to make three bombs on Rena, but it took three times as long to make one. – There was no alternative plan to the point where I gave up that idea. What you may refer to was that there was an alternative plan. It was to use smaller bombs of 50 kg. It was to combine it with a large car bomb and some less. In this context, the goals changed and I decided that it would be Aftenposten by driving a bomb [Here, Breivik in detail how this should be solved] – But then the probability to do something afterwards was little.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – When was the idea of Utøya goal appeared?
Anders Breivik Behring: – One may also my review of NRK, VG and Aftenposten. The reason it fell to Aftenposten that the VG and NRK was geographically unsuitable. – It was the most attractive target in Norway.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – What was the reason why it was Utøya and nothing of what you have mentioned now?
Anders Breivik Behring: – When I came to a situation where it was impossible to make more than a bomb, so it resulted in a strategy where you had to choose one bombemål and one goal which was based shooting action. And the goal should be either investigative conference, that this was actually a plan that I thought at the beginning of 2010. If I succeeded in making a bomb would SKUP conference in Tønsberg be the most attractive target. – Norwegian press bears the greatest responsibility, perhaps as much as the Labour Party, that we are where we are today. I did not do as much research in the stage, but the investigative conference was by far the best target for a shooting-based operation. – I could maybe combine it with a car bomb. It could have happened, but unfortunately I was late. I got not a farm early enough and therefore I did not scoop Conference in 2011. Then was the second best measure Labor Party’s national convention, I did everything I could to reach that date. But human limitations did I not.
Comments from VG Morten Hopperstad: Breivik applied handcuffs and led out of the auditorium. On the way he stops enough once up and talk to Lippestad. Follow responses of questioning directly on VGTV: direkte.vg.no/studio/rettssak-dag-4 The pause lasts for one hour.
Anders Breivik Behring: – So then I ended in a situation where I had three car bomb targets. I estimated 3-4 weeks. At worst, if I failed to do so before the summer holiday, he would Utøya be a target.
Prosecutors Svein Holden: – Viewing the clock is twelve, so …?
Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen: – As appropriate to take a break, then fit it to pause the clock 13….
Original article: Dag 4, ord for ord: Breivik uenig med sitt eget manifest
Google translation [edited for clarity]:
Read Thursday’s third of prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh and Svein Holden questioning by Anders Breivik Behring below:
VG: – The different actors begin to take place in the courtroom. Breivik have also been received.
Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen: – The court is set. Be as good as the prosecutor can proceed examination.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Breivik, you told us in the place that you assumed you had been on reconnaissance in the government building 8 times. What were you doing when you rekogniserte?
Behring Anders Breivik: – That is what we talked about in place, there was one thing I forgot, regarding alternative plans, I might take it first? [Holden: - Yes.] I had an alternative plan in case I could not get enough explosives. As an alternative strategy was to use a so-called poor man’s atomic bomb, which I have described earlier.
Behring Anders Breivik: – [here describe Breivik how he would construct a so-called poor man's atomic bomb] It can be used in several places in Oslo. It was important not to harm civilians. The two attacks had been directed at the government building and 1 May train that is out of position at Youngstorget.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What was the reason why it lapsed?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It lapsed for the simple reason that I had access to produce its own large car bomb (…).
prosecutor Svein Holden: – When to blow up a charge in connection with a 1 May train, did you ever thought about how many lives could be lost there, or?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It is difficult to estimate, but up to several thousand people. Considering that it collected all the ten thousand people, it would be the biggest event to hit segment. The entire kulturmarxistiske elite gathered at the square, the percentage would be only about ten percent innocent would be killed. – I did not do as much research around the [1 May train] in the beginning. It is the only event where the politically active Marxists are gathered. It is the international communist days. – What I considered it was that such a major attack was over. I considered it unacceptable. I looked at what the Labor Party should be given a warning before a big attack and the warning was 22 July.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – I believe we return to what I started with. You told the place that you’d reconnoiter. What was reknogoseringen in?
Behring Anders Breivik: – No, I do reconnaissance in two ways. Maybe four times I reconnoitre from a distance, and observed. On four occasions I went just over. To avoid being suspected, one can only sacrifice a glance. I did not take the chance to use Google street view in case it was flagged electronically. – But what I was looking for ways to get under built. Any weaknesses. Where you run into and how much a car that could fit. What time of day it may have been set up blocking really all possible such details.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – And when you were at a distance, how far away were you when?
Behring Anders Breivik: – No, that is, the closest I came was to go on the sidewalk right outside the building. – But the four times when you were at a distance, where were you then? – The first time was the VG-building and it was a little further away in Grubbegaten. Once at the Oslo Public Library. Another time was Hammersborg square.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – How long you observed each of these places would you estimate?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I do not remember exactly, but I’ve tried to make a record of police, and there will be no more specific than that really.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Did you discover any valuable information when you stood by the VG-built, Hammersborg and down in Grubbegaten?
Behring Anders Breivik: – That’s pretty limited what you can observe from the distance. Reconnaissance is not necessarily just built but around, but how to run away from there and learn about the quarters. Where you can run in and out. There was only one entrance to the quarter and it was Grubbegaten. Then I heard about the case where one would put up roadblocks.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – The four times when you were a little closer, as you mentioned, among other things, walking on the sidewalk, there were other places you were approaching or were you close in other ways?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It was the closest I came.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – And what kind of …. you stopped and looked at the building, or you just threw a glance when you went over?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I never stopped up, I just threw a glance.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – The times you looked, you discover something important about then?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It was the points that I described the place as I was concerned. But what is important of course, when reconnaissance is to slip into the environment, so it’s important that one is a Clas Ohlson bag or something similar, which may support or provide a reason for that is there.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – I looked for cameras, for example?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I was considering doing it but it would be too risky if you looked up and saw the cameras. I did not but I figured that it was 100 percent camera coverage.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – But you saw that is not a single camera?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I did not see the cameras.
prosecutor Svein Holden – I sit and wonder … is there really any significant risk to sit down with lunch by the fountain at the high-rise building? Was it in 2006?
Behring Anders Breivik: – There is probably no other than me to answer. I do not know the routines of the PST in Norway. It is better to make a reservation that there is some security.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Did you have any observations related to the guards in the building?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I assumed they were the same, that they had external guards and that they had internal guards, I assumed that it was a security center a few blocks from where it was the camera key and I assumed that there were four Armed guards on the ground floor, which would come out as soon as I walked out of the car. – I took into account fight against four people. It was also why I was wearing uniform.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Did you do some research to confirm or disprove any of these assumptions? [No I did not respond Breivik].
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Was it part of the reason for what you did in Modern Warfare, with to prepare you for a pincer movement?
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna: Holden suggests that it probably had not undergone any alarm if Breivik had sat down and ate lunch box at the fountain outside the high-rise building in 2006.
Behring Anders Breivik: – No, that is now referring to a war simulation, digital simulation is a tool to prepare for something that is real. I have no opportunity to obtain information, so I did just an assumption.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What about the pillars? Size of columns? The kind of thing. As for the kind of thing?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I think I reviewed it at some point. I had studied some “case studies” in the past. Among other things, World Trade Center bombing and other attacks in the Middle East. They had I studied. It was limited in what I was able to reason my way to. It is not possible to make a calculated analysis of it.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Men looked for beams?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I did enough, but I just concluded early on that it does not matter, that’s not where the limit is, the limitation lies in the human.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Did you do any reviews on the thickness of the pillars?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I meant to remember I did it.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – It is asked about it in interviews [referring to interview 20 December and read about the defendant's explanation of the columns in the building].
Behring Anders Breivik: – I do not think you should add very much weight on it. What we concluded the conversation was that I thought it’s just to try with a 1-ton bomb, and it is perhaps a slight possibility that the building collapses, but it is difficult to calculate. – I had two reference points, one was the WTC 93 and the other was Oklahoma City.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Now you said that you were on reconnaissance eight times. Four of the times you stood at a distance, including the VG, Deichman. Previously, you stopped and looked toward the mansion. Is this a thorough reconnaissance?
Behring Anders Breivik: – a large enough degree. That all depends on. What is the conclusion of what you come up until now is that I concluded that I have not qualified for a blast analysis, I just have to try and see.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – So you told the site that at one time or another were then Utøya chosen as targets. Probably at the end of June, also made it clear I want you in the interview had said that it was in the period 30 June to early July. What was the reason you ended up on Utøya then?
Behring Anders Breivik: – The reason was that it was the most attractive political target in Norway at that time I was going to strike. It was common holiday, it means that most conventional measure … two-thirds of all personnel in the buildings was not present. It turned completely upside down on the action, and alternative targets were selected. – It coincided with the fact that I had only managed to produce one bomb. And the fact that it was common holiday. It was the best measure of the time.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What was it that was appealing to you when it came Utøya?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Well, part of the reason that I wanted in the first place other goals, it was because I knew that Utøya would be a very controversial measure, even among militant nationalists. The impression I have is that about half of militant nationalists in Europe supports the goal.
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna Breivik repeat once enough information that it was important that innocents were not killed by a bomb. This time he is interrupted by the prosecutor, who points out that we’ve heard this before.
Anders Breivik Behring – I knew that if it was humanly possible, and if there was a better measure, should be a better measure will be selected. But it is very common to criticize an action after the fact. There are many sofageneraler who does and who think I should have chosen the Labour Party headquarters instead. – If I had attacked Labor’s head office instead Utøya there had been many civilians had died. As the Tourist Association. Based on the situation I was in was Utøya the most attractive destination outside the government building.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – You used the 50/50 percent estimate for a day or two ago as well. what you build it, that half of the militant nationalists (…)?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It is the impression I got based on feedback. I have an impression of what is written on forum of people who support the militant nationalists.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Okay, so it is through letters people have sent to you?
Behring Anders Breivik: – This is where I got that impression, yes.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What was it about Utøya was attractive then?
Comments from VG Morten Hopperstad: Breivik says that the aim of the attack on Utøya was to frame the Labour Party. He scratches his nose and mentions people he interviews has called category A-traitors: Marte Michelet, Jonas Gahr Støre, Minister Gro Harlem Brundtland and Jens Stoltenberg. Breivik believe Brundtland was the most attractive target.
Behring Anders Breivik: – It was that a political goal. The aim of Utøya it was to attack the … The primary goal in one of the five days Utøya was the first day on Wednesday, Marte Michelet would be the speaker. The next day was to be Minister, the day after that again would be Gro Harlem Brundtland, and the day after that again would be prime minister.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Did you have any preferences as to which days you should attack?
Anders Breivik Behring – I looked at all the days that very attractive. Because so militant nationalists were all category A traitors. Maybe not Marte Michelet. But Gro Harlem Brundtland is the most attractive target. – At that time, she [Brundtland] possibly an even more attractive target than Stoltenberg. Minister Brundtland and I considered that the most attractive targets. Do you want me to talk about (…)?
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Now you have told about what you categorize as category A, those who were most attractive. What about the others who were there because they were attractive targets?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Yes, the plan was that if you survived the first part of the action – Government buildings – one would go to Utøya, get over, and go after the primary goal of the day was Gro Harlem Brundtland. The aim was to strike at the Government buildings at ten, so there was Utøya at 11, when she was there.
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna: It gave a big sigh from the audience when Breivik end a long session on Utøya by saying: “The goal was to kill all”.
Comments from VG Morten Hopperstad: Breivik said that the plan was to blow up regjeringskvatalet 10 am and drive to Utøya and be there at 11 He wanted to bring a camera and film the execution of Gro. Goal number two was Eskild Pedersen then intimidate other participants in the aufs fun. – The goal was not to kill 69 people at Utøya. The goal was to kill everyone. The weapon was to be a detonator and the water would be a weapons of mass destruction, says Breivik. In the sitting room, Trond Blatt Man of the Support Group 22 July and shakes his head.
VG: – It says Breivik that the plan was to bring a camera, called the police digital camera and an iPhone in order to send a movie to supporters in which he showed that he killed Gro Harlem Brundtland.
Behring Anders Breivik: – After the plan was to execute Eskil Pedersen, he was goal number two. The plan after that was to intimidate the rest of AUFerne by shooting people out there and the main plan was to use water as a weapons of mass destruction, let the people drown in agony. – I considered it very difficult to swim away from there when you are in agony. So the goal was not to kill 69 people at Utøya, the goal was to kill everyone. – And the goal was not to shoot as many as possible, but the target product to use firearms as a detonator and use water as a weapons of mass destruction. The goal was to kill everyone.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – If we take hold of it first. It threatened to kill a person and broadcast it, how did you get the idea?
Comments from VG Morten Hopperstad: Breivik explains in detail how he would proceed Utøya and that he, among other things, inspired by al-Qaeda. The voice is still clear, and he sits quietly in the chair.
Behring Anders Breivik: – It is a strategy and tradition among militant Islamists. It is primarily a psychological weapon I consider to be very effective and I would like to help to establish a tradition among Islamic militants in Europe. – The way I see fit so had a great effect on al-Qaeda.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Had you done some preparation in terms of carrying out such acts?
Anders Breivik Behring – I had taken with a bayonet and a knife as well. The camera I would take was discharged. But before that I had concluded that it would take too long to upload the movie. The goal was to shoot everything and try to download it. I never got as far as I bought the iPhone. But it went away because of human limitations.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Did you have included some tools to pacify individuals who were [executed]?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I had taken with plastic handcuffs, I had three pieces of the coffin in which I had, and they were used in the execution.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Some would guess – and not just some – many would say that this is an extremely brutal way to kill someone?
VG: – It says Breivik that he planned beheading as a method of execution by Gro Harlem Brundtland. He planned to do this using the bayonet of his rifle, he said.
Comments from VG Morten Hopperstad: Breivik said he tried to focus on people over 18 years Utøya, and he describes an encounter with a young boy whom he shot and killed. – It is not desirable to have goals that are under 18, and that was why I was even critical of Utøya goal, says Breivik with her eyes fixed on the prosecutor.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – So you say quite clearly here that the goal then was to kill all the Utøya through to shoot someone and then the rest were drowned. Did you ever reflect on how many you had to kill with guns before the rest fled into the water?
Behring Anders Breivik: – What I concluded before I went out there, it was, I have the experience, even from a political youth party, and it’s 16-year age limit. Up until 23 I thought the AP had a 16-year age limit and that none of Utøya were under 16. I also knew that most young people in political parties, about 75% are over 18 years.
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna: The information that Breivik had planned to carry out an execution on Utøya that would be filmed creates reactions belong to the bench. Many shake their heads, some give each other a comforting hand, more people are given out.
Behring Anders Breivik: – That’s what I calculated, and I thought well, I knew that killing someone under 18 would be criticized, and I tried to avoid shooting people under 18 But what happened was that people turned around, and what you use to recognize the age, that face, fell away.
Comments from VG Morten Hopperstad: Breivik reiterated that he stands for what he has done and that he would have done it again. He denies that he is a child murderer, and justifies it with everyone who works for the multiculturalists are legitimate targets.
Behring Anders Breivik: – You did not really have to consider with regard to age. So the strategy proved to be more difficult than planned.
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna Breivik has the police interrogation was very concerned that he did not kill anyone under 16 years Utøya. Later he learned that the youngest victim was 14 years. – Are you a child killer, ask the prosecutor Svein Holden.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – But you chose to take the chance?
Behring Anders Breivik: – my starting point was that there was someone there who was not 16 years. I thought so right up to 23 July. (…)
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Utøya we come back tomorrow. To take it a little more generally, when you discovered that there was a significant number of people who were killed were under 18 years …. [Interrupted]
Behring Anders Breivik: – There were more than 25 percent that I could calculate. It was 40 percent instead of 25 percent.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – How do you see it today? – How do you see this today, in retrospect, when you have seen that there were many during 18 ..?
Behring Anders Breivik: – judging from the conditions and what happened is I Utøya and what I have done. I would still have done it again. – And the starting point for this is that there was no better political goal in Norway.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – One of the first things you said in court was that police had wrongly accused you of being a child murderer?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Did the police accused me of it?
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Yes they charged you for it because you said you had not killed anyone under 14.
Behring Anders Breivik: – I have not accused the police to say it. I have blamed the media for saying that. [Prosecutor: Are you a child killer?] – No, I’m not a child killer. I believe that all political activists who choose to fight for multiculturalism and working actively for political and leadership positions in an organization is legitimate targets. – And 44 of the 69 persons had leadership positions in the AUF and many of them were nominated for the City Council.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Does this apply also for 14 and 15 year olds?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It is not desirable to focus on people under 18, but there was no better than the political objective that day was better.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Do you remember how you rated yourself as a 15-year-old?
Behring Anders Breivik: – That’s right, I was not a political activist when I was fifteen. It was my first when I signed up into a political party.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – [prosecutor refers the manifesto of Breivik's political viewpoints and attitudes]
Behring Anders Breivik: – If you do not flag their political positions and joined a political party, then you have not selected a political direction. But when you have chosen in and taken on a leadership role, you have it. As I said in place, it is not desirable to focus on those under 18. My point was that everyone was over 16 years and I could distinguish between those who were younger. In retrospect, I would still say that there was no better political goals. – Alternatively, you might consider an attack against Labour which 50% had been innocent civilians, which has nothing to do with politics, and I consider that it would be a much poorer goal, even if it had hit the AP.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – According to your own division, the A, B and C offenders: How these people fell under?
Behring Anders Breivik: – All who have leadership positions in the Labor and Workers’ Youth (…). Anyone who has leadership positions are category B. 44 of the 65 individuals were not only members of the AUF, they were leaders, too.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – The fact you can now characterize these as Category-B. Is it consistent with what you’ve done before?
Behring Anders Breivik: – So the media have written that there were innocent children, until I managed to find out for yourself that 44 of those had leading positions in the AUF. – And yes … And I found out a month ago.
prosecutor Svein Holden – I think you remember that you have previously said that these people fell into a category C.
Behring Anders Breivik: – I do not think you should hang you so very much up in it.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – No, we can ask the question, at least. Do you have characterized it as category C in the past?
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna: Holden now has the help of Inga Bejer Engh and police assessor Kenneth Wilberg to find out what Breivik has previously said about the victims of Utøya. Holden says to remember that Breivik has called them “Category C traitors”.
Behring Anders Breivik: – It does not matter … It … Utøya [interrupted by Holden]
prosecutor Svein Holden: – So that I can explain the question. The reason I ask is that according to A, B and C offenders you do not have a mandate to kill the category C offenders.
Behring Anders Breivik: – It is described in the compendium is that as far as possible one should focus on those categories. If not possible, we will attack the possible attack. It is like saying that of course will attack the government directly, but they are very good at building castles around itself, so that attacks are made possible from a single cell. This is the natural consequence is that you focus on others who are under them. – And second, had it not been for the EU, Norway and PST’s campaign against explosives, including fertilizer, it would have been an action, which was three car bombs, but what happens is that the Norwegian authorities gjlør it impossible to obtain enough explosives. When blirt politically motivated violence, men forced to leave the bombings, to go to gun-based attacks. – It’s not something we have chosen, but we must adapt. We have no other opportunities for you have taken from us the other opportunities we had.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – So then it is preferable to bomb? [I had not preferred firearm based action because it is difficult for an individual to do it, says Breivik] – What do you think that “it is hard”?
Behring Anders Breivik: – To do something like what happened at Utøya prejudice against all human nature. And you must prepare yourself really to be able to implement it. – If you can train yourself to hammer out your emotions, and build up a dødsforakt … even then it is very difficult to implement such a reaction that actually goes against human nature. – It’s easy to push a button and trigger a bomb. It is very difficult and barbaric to conduct a firearms based action.
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna: – There may be some who would argue that the primary responsibility lies with you, Breivik? – For multikulturisme? – No, for the victims of Utøya. – Yes, of course. All liability rests with me.
Behring Anders Breivik: – But when our tools are deprived of you, or EU authorities, it is what we are forced to do.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Are you pleased that you managed to implement it?
Comment from Dennis VG Ravndal: Breivik explains with quiet and insistent voice when he tells why it was necessary to kill 77 people in Utøya. He would have preferred a bomb, he said. He owes back the press as the reason for the massacre, before Holden dishes for him.
Behring Anders Breivik: – I think it’s terrible that you have to do such acts in order to pass a message. If you want to see a list of those responsible, it is the Norwegian press and European press who refuse to express ourselves in addition to the Labour Party.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – There may be some who would argue that the primary responsibility rests with you Breivik.
Behring Anders Breivik: – Responsibility for multiculturalism is with me? [Holden: The responsibility for the death of these people.] Of course. That responsibility lies with me.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – On Utøya then said the following when you were interrogated there: “Most of those who were at camp today categorized as C. And we do not really have a mandate to execute category C offenders.” Have you upgraded them afterwards?
Anders Breivik Behring – I based myself on the information I had read in the media, that this was the members and leaders. After it appeared that 44 of 69 were managers. – Had it been the only members it would have been category C yes.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – You have repeatedly said that it is so difficult for militant nationalists to acquire fertilizers and explosives. Was that it?
Comments from VG Morten Hopperstad: Prosecutors ask more questions about Breivik’s explanation that it was difficult to procure fertilizer. – Why was it so difficult? Was not it just go up to Rena? asks Holden. Breivik answers evasive and repeats himself and starts talking about the capitalization phase, which began in 2002 and research he did to make the bomb.
Behring Anders Breivik: – If you look at the operation as a whole, including the capitalization phase, beginning in 2002. To conduct an operation, you need money, and that is done by working or steal. I chose to work. – And I chose to work and when I spent several years in providing me enough money to carry kompendiefasen and action phase.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – So it was your lack of access to capital that was the difficulty in obtaining fertilizers?
Behring Anders Breivik: – To acquire fertilizer costs 30,000 kroner. That in itself is not that expensive.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – But why did you confirm that it was one of the barriers that led to the action you performed on Utøya? Answer my question.
Behring Anders Breivik: – I did a lot of research and it was unknown to the vast majority that it was possible to use fertilizer to construct a bomb. It said online that it was possible to implement. I do not know who might have posted the information online, maybe it’s the United States or other sovereign powers. – It was the forum post after forum post that said it will not detonate because the authorities in the EU has mixed it with lime. Many lived in the knowledge that it is not gonna work. [Breivik explains some further detail about the ingredients]
prosecutor Svein Holden: – But Breivik, it was difficult to get fertilizer? Was it placed some barriers that need ground that (…)?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I was very unsure if it was going to detonate at all. [Holden: But Breivik, was it difficult?] Of course there is that, when EU authorities mixing with lime to make it impossible!
prosecutor Svein Holden: – But it seemed .. It seemed the more.
Behring Anders Breivik: – I did not know it in advance. It was a theory that was based on much research. [You did not? asks Holden]
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna: Prosecutors ask judge Svein Holden nice to have a break before they go onto the next topic. The reason is the gruesome descriptions Breivik has been included. Judge Arntzen would first have paused at. 14.20, but accepts a quarter break after Holden says they need it.
Behring Anders Breivik: – Most militant nationalists believed right up to 22 July that fertilizer could not be used because the EU authorities have mixed it with 15% lime. We prefer not firearms operations, but bombs.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – But Breivik, you were deprived of the ability to use explosives?
Comments from VG Morten Hopperstad: Prosecutors ask for a break and tell the judge Arntzen that he will move on to planning next. Lippestad stating that he will start with their questions tomorrow. Breivik led out of the hall in handcuffs. He smiles to Holden when he leaves the witness stand.
Behring Anders Breivik: – Obviously, it appears that I was not there, but I was not sure until it detonated.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – It is strictly speaking a little time left to break. I must admit that after what you’ve said so we leave Utøya yet. [The judge wonders whether prosecutors will soon be done with batch 2]
VG: – It is discussed further time schedule for time and examination for the day and tomorrow. Defender Lippestad want to have time at the end of the day questioning his client….
Original article: Dag 4, ord for ord: Breivik ville drepe alle på Utøya
Google translation [edited for clarity]:
Read Thursday’s fourth and final part of prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh and Svein Holden questioning by Anders Breivik Behring below:
VG: – Here comes Breivik into the courtroom again. – He speaks enough even with its defenders.
Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen: – As we continue negotiations. Holden I think of time spent in the future. We are located at one stretch and quit before four. [Holden says he should have in mind]
Comment from Dennis VG Ravndal: Breivik is out of breath when he sat down in the witness box. He will now explain more about the preparations for terrorist assassination.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Breivik, before we move forward I think to take up the thread at one point. But first, you have something to attribute to what you already said?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Do not deny the fact that violence is and should be the last option. And as I see it, and I have very many others tried to make themselves heard, but because of Norwegian and foreign press have been marginalized, and then we have been pushed.
prosecutor Svein Holden – I have set up a point on the list called preparation. You have been told that “I have a viewpoint that is a little different than yours,” we have talked about the implementation of the action and målutvelgelse. We have talked about Utøya and its ministries. Now I go a little further into this with the preparation. – I’m not going to spend so much time on this. Can you talk a little about the equipment. What kind of reviews you did about it. I told the opening speech that the majority of the purchases took place from April 2010 to March 2011. What kind of reviews did you do about this issue?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Let’s see. [Breivik writes in a note.] So, basically based on what kind of operation we are talking about then you first have to secure financing. It is the very first. That’s what I did the first year, I came in kompendieskrivingsfasen, so I secured nødkreditt, so I started email recuperation. After that I started rustingsanskaffelsesfasen who went on to buy a bulletproof vest and a helmet. – So what can be called armor parts. I spent maybe 80 to 90,000 just on that alone and spent some months on it. As I leave it up, so I shared planning in four phases, each phase and after I tried to get rid of all the evidence, so that I could start next without fear of being discovered. – And when I had finished getting all the armor … eh … it was the helmet, a few other armor pieces – designed that I have made myself – as well as Spanish riders and politiemblemer. – What was the plan was to combine poltiemblemer in armor phase. I therefore travel to Prague to finish it. I buried a box of equipment at the Swedish border in July 2010 to eliminate all evidence of what I had done until then. I could then go to weapons procurement phase.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – So just to sum this up with armor. You got some armor parts and at one point put everything together into a box. What kind of case was it?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It was a special case that can withstand a lot, which I bought from the U.S., a “Pelican” case. It is the one pictured.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – So did you and let the armor or armor parts in this and dug it.
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna: It was more crying in the break, including journalists.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Where did you dig it down? Breivik: North of Kongsvinger had the most isolated place in Norway.
Behring Anders Breivik: – A place called Råtnemovegen. It is 200 meters from the road. Then I dug into the repository there. When I had done that I started on weapons procurement phase. I informed all friends and I knew that I was on a bokturnè to Eastern Europe which up till then had not shown any friends. – I had only told part of it. So when I said that I was going down on a bokturné, when in reality I was down and buy weapons. When I had concluded that the best place to buy weapons was in Prague, the capital. The main purpose of the trip was to buy a Kalashnikov and shrapnel grenades. – Possibly also I spent a lot of time trying to acquire rustningspentrerende ammunition … [Interrupted]
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What was the reason for that?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I also wanted a flamethrower and I held up the opportunity at that time. But I wanted primarily to obtain weapons.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Flamethrower, what is that?
Behring Anders Breivik: – A flamethrower … there’s probably nothing more descriptive words than that. It’s pretty self explanatory.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What did you see for you to use something like this to?
Comment from Dennis VG Ravndal: Breivik explains about where and how he got the equipment he would use in the terrorist attack. He uses words like “weapons acquisition phase,” “armor penetrating” and “potent psychological weapon.” It is greatly to hear Breivik explain this in neutral and conversational tone. He approached the prosecutor and his face showing no emotion.
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna: Holden tried several times to get Breivik to explain what a flamethrower is, but the defendant thought it said itself. Only when the district court judge Arntzen break in and ask with his strict voice, he replied.
Behring Anders Breivik: – A flamethrower is not a practical weapon, it is a psychological weapon. As I and others interpret the politically motivated violence, is not it kill as many as possible, but to get through a message. It is often best done through if you are using psychological weapons. I considered it as a very potent psykolgoisk weapons.
Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen: – Breivik, can you explain what that weapon is made up of?
Behring Anders Breivik: – A flamethrower consists of a tank filled with flammable liquid and it consists of a pistol-like object that deploy this solution. And there is a small device that antennas fluid after it is distributed. There is a flamethrower. – But it will prove impossible so I focused on conventional weapons. Prague was not as suitable for weapons procurement. [Holden wondering what he was doing there when] – I went to Prague to print logos, PST logos to put on the car with the magnet piece, I made 12 pieces of these PST logos to attach to vehicles. Everything was based on the strategy in three car bombs. In addition, I printed out three police identification proving I had made in Photoshop.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – So the purpose was fulfilled with the trip, I realized?
Behring Anders Breivik: – That’s right, but I was unable to procure weapons on that trip. And on that trip, I decided … considering that I have no criminal weapons, so I could buy these weapons. – I owned at that time already a shotgun. What remained then was to buy a semiautomatic rifle and a pistol starting point was to buy a Kalashnikov. I had already a .308 rifle. [Breivik says when the ammunition to pass] If I had bought it in Prague, I could do it in Berlin or Copenhagen.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – How did you try to approach potential sellers?
Behring Anders Breivik: – In perhaps six occasions so I contacted people that I thought might be helpful, people who saw the crime. I went to places where I assumed that the probability was high that I could find weapons. – But it did not result in the fact that I managed to get a weapon contact. So I could not. Then I decided … I had done it if the will was there. I could go down to the Balkans, but I chose to get me there in a lawful manner.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – When it comes to the weapons acquired later, Ruger and Glock, Can you explain why there were these two weapons.
Behring Anders Breivik: – A primærvåppen as I see it is a rifle. Of all the weapons you can acquire in Norway is the Ruger Mini 14, which is the most obvious conventional combat weapons. There are many accessories that can be purchased from foreign retailers such as magazines. It was basically that I chose it.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What about the Glock, then?
Comment from Dennis VG Ravndal: Breivik explains how he traveled to Prague to get a Kalashnikov, or AK 47 It is a native Russian made assault rifle, which is the most widely used automatic weapons in the world. He approached several people in the city, which he considered as criminals out, to attempt to obtain the weapon. It did not work. Instead he bought legally a semiautomatic Glock 9 mm pistol and a Ruger Mini-caliber rifle with 223
Behring Anders Breivik: – Glock was actually the same argumententet. It is possible to gain enhancement, particularly high-capacity magazines. It was the first place.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – High-Capacity Magazine, what is that?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Frequently magazines for the rifle was five, but you could add high-capacity magazine that allowed you to take 30 shots, and Glock was the same number, versus 17 that were common then.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What was the reason why you considered it an advantage?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It is an advantage if you are planning an action that is based on access to a lot of ammunition. If you are planning an assassination, an execution of a person. When it is completely unnecessary. If I had decided to execute such Stoltenberg, it might be appropriate.
Comments from VG Morten Hopperstad: Breivik take a break and drink water before he continues to explain why he acquired as much ammunition as he did. Police, mass murderer fired at least 186 shots on Utøya. In addition, it was seized around 900 shots from pelikankassen he had at his so-called “base of operations” behind the main house on the island.
Behring Anders Breivik: – I considered that I would go for a completely different type of operation. When I needed more ammunition.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – In the city you talked about the primary goal was to scare people on the water on Utøya, needed you so much ammunition?
Behring Anders Breivik: – One must take into account that one does not go as expected. Theoretically, it would have gone with one shot, but it had been very stupid. One must always take into account that one needs more than you think.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – When it comes to the choice of ammunition, can you tell us a bit what you were thinking at that point? You have been a little inside it already.
Behring Anders Breivik: – I have been told that I was trying to get armor penetrating ammunition for it was the second part or conventional police who tried to kill me and they had armor. I tried to obtain such ammunition that could penetrate it.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Were you about it? [Breivik: No, I could not get armor-piercing ammunition. ]
Behring Anders Breivik: – No, I did not succeeded. I probably would have done it, but it required a lot of resources so I put it on the shelf. But basically you need to take account of what is humanly possible to carry. If you use military parameters, so there are 15 kg is the limit for that you should be combat capable.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – If you take more equipment with you than it affects your battle skills. The goal is that everything you take with you is essential. It is a familiar concept in the military. Everything else you need to leave behind. On Utøya I had to make a choice, I will go with the armor, or should I take with me ammunition.
Behring Anders Breivik: – If there were armed people out there I would blirr killed without armor. I chose to take the ammunition instead of armor. Considering that you had to opt out of all that is essential.
Behring Anders Breivik: – I chose the soft point bullets. The setting will be, as far as possible, firing a shot per person when you go for a vital spot and it’s head. And I used soft point bullets, for it is most deadly.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – But how do you think it worked on Utøya? [Breivik: - Can you specify?] Ammunition type, were you satisfied with the election?
Behring Anders Breivik: – There is no question of being happy. We are talking about achieving an objective.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Did you know you did it? [I felt I achieved the objective I had answers Breivik]
Behring Anders Breivik: – The starting point is that it would scare many people as possible on the water, an it did not work as intended so you had to adapt.
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna prosecutor Svein Holden need to ask questions, but it looks like he might intend to drop. It’s a sad mood all over now. Breivik talking quietly about, detailed preparations to kill as many as possible.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – You said that some of the purpose of the ammunition was that it would stick with one shot. The killed were hit by at least 189 shots. And it would probably be roughly just under three shots per deceased. How do you feel about that?
Behring Anders Breivik: – The aim was to kill, and then shoots, up until you reach that goal, and you shoot as many times as needed before one can ascertain that the goal has been achieved.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Are you considering other types of weapons than the ones you’ve been through now? [What kind of weapons do you mean, ask about Breivik]
Behring Anders Breivik: – [Breivik drinking water.] You are talking about biological munitions.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What are we looking for something here?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It was created as an illustration. [Holden shows a picture of Breivik from the manifesto] – There is a picture of a person in a chemical suit.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – How did this picture here for?
Behring Anders Breivik: – The setting was that I took with me a chemical suit and took a picture. The purpose of the illustration is to sell KT to other militant nationalists. And it signals that we have the capacity that it indicates.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – “We have the capacity to indicate.” What capacity are you referring to?
Comments from VG Morten Hopperstad: Prosecutor taking up a picture of Breivik wearing a chemical suit and mask that he has attached to the manifest. In the picture he stands with ensprøyte in one hand and ammunition in the other. – Hensiktenmed image was to sell the Knights Templar to other militant nationalists and signals that we have the capacity that it indicates, says Breivik.
Behring Anders Breivik: – The intention is to sell into a militant nationalist solution to other militant nationalists who still are not associated with any identity. The purpose of the image is in a marketing purpose. Give a signal that the picture drawn by the media that the far right are jerks that go with sticks or stones are misleading. We try to lay a foundation [You are talking about we, then asks Holden] – It was my idea to bring it, but there is talk about what we want. But it is my suggestion, yes, that’s right.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Did you buy anything, what can we say, unconventional ammunition? Or biological weapons?
Comments from VG Morten Hopperstad: Without emotions Breivik describes how he wanted to make biological munitions for use in the massacre of Utøya, but he abandoned the idea because it was not practicable.
Behring Anders Breivik: – Ehm … with a view to planning an attack on the Labour Party’s national convention, I calculated that the most appropriate would be to obtain biological munitions. It would be a lot of security there, and it was important that each shot was fatal. – In this connection I bought … [Breivik mention what and how much the lethal dose he has the ammunition]
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What do you våpeniseres? [Breivik: There is no good Norwegian word for it. In English it is weaponized.]
Behring Anders Breivik: – It is the biological material, when injected into a ball. The idea was to blunt the ammunition and use it as a biological munitions, and when it is in principle a biological weapon.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Left the tank?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I left the tank. [What was the reason for it, asks Holden about Breivik] – The reason was that [tells about different types amunisjon.] It would be irresponsible without a backup weapon. It was not me.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – If we go over to a third group of preparatory acts. Bomb production. The first step which is probably the acquisition of Vålstua farm? Can you tell us about the process?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It was the autumn of 2010 when I started the localization process of trying to find a farm. It turned out to be harder than I thought. I spent much time on it.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What was it that was problematic?
Comments from VG Morten Hopperstad: Breivik takes a long pause as he notes on a white sheet of paper before he talks about how he manufactured the bomb.
Behring Anders Breivik: – The problem was that the farms that were too little had been farmland, and therefore risked being flagged by your dealer. It was therefore essential that the amount of [chemical] stood in relation to the farm. Therefore there should be a specific farm, and it had to be near Oslo. So I managed to obtain a suitable farm in April.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Can you tell us about the production process? This is something that it is quite detailed about in your compendium. What I want is you to give a more concise version of how you did this.
Behring Anders Breivik: – [Noting] In principle, a bomb consisting of three charges – a primary, secondary and tertiary charge. – What I started to create an acid and once you’ve made it, you can synthesize it on. Simply by increasing the purity of the [Breivik says stands for acid] It is the same as NATO use in bombs. It is stable material. There are ten times as stable as Islamists tend to use. The problem is that it is difficult to make it.
Behring Anders Breivik: – I took that chance because I thought that what is commonly used is extremely dangerous, so I tried to make [abbreviation]. Most people who try to make it, can not do it. I was very worried about it. So it can start making was [an acid]. Then I made a few grams [an abbreviation.] I did a test on it, so it turned out that I was able to produce both substances.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – The test you have set to be 12 June, just as it is listed.
Behring Anders Breivik: – When I had assured me that I had managed to create primary and secondary part, I started on the Tertiary section, ie manure. I do not know how much you want me to tell you ….?
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna: It is clear that Breivik like to talk about bomb production. He talks long and detailed without the prosecutor Svein Holden need to make follow-up questions ..
Comment from Dennis Ravndal VG: He grins as he wonders how detailed he should be, so that the recipe will appear in open court.
Behring Anders Breivik: – What you need is [Breivik username of fertilizer here] and it comes in 600-pound bags. It consists of prilled. The Norwegian and European authorities have done is they’ve soaked it in water so it will be worthless for so-called terrorists. In order to contrast it must use stops and miksmastere. I experiment with multiple stops. – I bought 12 different brands, tested each one and examined what was most appropriate. Then went to 3-4 different Elkjøp and I bought the (number) of [the brand that worked best] and I broke these pills. [Describes problems related to production.] At the time I had three tons of [drug]. [Explains further method.]
Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen: – Holden, it is necessary to go into much detail on everything here? Also with regard to consideration of the issue you raised with the closing of doors, etc?
prosecutor Svein Holden: – We may go a step further, you mix into this …? – [Breivik describes methods] After this, what do you do?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Increases explosive power and the possibility of detonation. Then it goes from [describe various substances]. It was the tertiary charge. It is not very volatile. [Explains the various charges and how they are connected.] It is the principle behind it.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – [Substance], it was someone I mentioned earlier, I said something about that there were some of the inside of the barrel, is that correct?
Behring Anders Breivik: – That is correct. In the inner charge, I used [describes an ingredient] – Shall I tell how I … [Holden interrupts and says they do not need to go into this, while Breivik smiles]
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What you might say something about, the time spent.
Behring Anders Breivik: – Well, I expected to be completed within four weeks. The ingredients that you need to make [matter], you need to simply do everything outdoors. When the problem is that others can see you, and it generates a lot of smoke unimaginable, so you have to do it at night. So it raised some questions. And it takes time. What I intended was three to four weeks.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – How long did it take?
Anders Breivik Behring – I hoped was finished by the end of January, but I was not finished before 21 July.
prosecutor Svein Holden – I should not ask more questions about the production of the bomb, but have one last little point of production. This applies to the use of performance enhancing drugs. Can you tell us a little about that?
Behring Anders Breivik: – What I described in the compendium, it was really just a theory, it was all about, or it is not just a theory. It goes without saying that if you use anabolic steroids so you increase your performance drastically. Additionally, if you use ECA as you increase your performance even further.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – ECA what is it?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It is a mixture of ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin. It was legal in Sweden until 2002. It is a performance-enhancing drug to thin blood. It makes the heart takes up more oxygen. You become more persistent and it is very performance-enhancing. There are a few drawbacks, and it lasts only two hours after taking a dose. It lasts up to four hours.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Did you use any anabolic steroids prior to July 22?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I started on it if you want to call it a cure at the end of april, because I figured that I would be finished in late May, and that which is common with so-called testosteronkur is that It lasts for six weeks. One should not do it anymore than that. – So I started it in late April, and I started with something called Dianabol, which are tablets, 40-50 milligrams per day, ie about five tablets each day. – And it turned out that I took even more time and treatment was very long and I went over to something called Elastosenol. There is another type of steroid. The downside is that you get an accumulation of fluid in the body and it is an unnecessary weight of water that you do not. If you go onto Vinstrol after the water flows out while muscle mass is maintained. – And on 22 I went in July, when the Vinstro. [Prosecutor: Trained something parallel to this?] – I had started training for months in advance and I had taken two courses of testosterone before I started on the last, so I had g
radually built up muscle mass. It was critically important, because I calculated to carry so much weight and so on that day. Without the anabolic steroids I had to cut down on equipment.
Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen: – Breivik, used anabolic steroids to those from late April to early July? [Breivik: - Yes, that's right]
prosecutor Svein Holden: – On the 22 July had you taken ECA?
Anders Breivik Behring – I had taken it a few days in advance to return the body to effect. – I can not remember, it’s possible that I took it between the hours of eleven and two o’clock.
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna: It is very rare interruptions from the defense bench. Only on a few occasions over the last four days have Lippestad broken into.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – As we begin to approach 22 July. I said during my opening speech that you ran the craft bag or car bomb in Oslo on 20 July, and there you had tertiary charge. What happened next?
Anders Breivik Behring – I parked the car away from all buildings, as isolated as possible.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – How far from the apartment? [Breivik: There is a suitable place I had spent some time trying to find. The place in Skøyen how it went at least the traffic passing by.] – What was the reason for that … [Breivik interrupts.]
Behring Anders Breivik: – I was very worried about too many transient because there are chemicals that smell, it has very strong odor. So you can smell it if you go by a car. I had made a logo in Photoshop that said “drain cleaner” or something like that I put in the windshield. So if someone perceived a very pungent odor, it could be the reason. – So it was parked there and so I went to go back to Rena day. I stayed in Hoffsveien that day. So I went by train to Rena day at 10.00.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Did you have anything with you on the train?
Behring Anders Breivik: – In the car bomb I had with Glock who was charged. – I had come to a situation where there was no turning back. I had no plans to come alive. – I had it in a toilet bag. So at that point I decided that there is no turning back. The next day I took the train to Rena and there was 13.15. Where did I last preparations for the primary charge.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – As the primary and secondary charge in Doploen down to Oslo?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It took longer than I thought to make the final preparations, so I have not gone before 7-8. When I came to Oslo like in 10 to 11 o’clock.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – If I remember correctly, both the GPS at half past twelve. It soon will I get a message here, whether it was or not.
Comments from VG Morten Hopperstad: Breivik said he was very nervous when he awoke in the morning 22 last July. He was tired and was delayed because of it.
Behring Anders Breivik: – I took with my PC because I would use to distribute the compendium.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – So you stayed with their mother that night, too? [Breivik: Yes, that's right. ]
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna: All the three places on the prosecution bench have computers. They apparently use a chat function to give each other messages and suggestions, Holden has repeatedly stated that he will soon get a message on it, if he is unsure of the details. The police also have a separate room behind the courtroom where it sits investigators who also can communicate directly to prosecutors in the audience.
Behring Anders Breivik: – I did not think very much, because I was exhausted after working all day, so I went to bed, fell asleep and did not think much about it. But then I woke up and thought that “today is the day I’m going to die.” So I thought I was pretty little keen on dying, really. – I was really nervous that morning. The first thing I did was actually å .. [Interrupted]
prosecutor Svein Holden: – When did you stand up? [I was well up in eight hours, says Breivik] – Was not the original plan to make the bombing of the government building in the early morning?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Yes, that’s right, but I was so exhausted. I do not remember when I went to bed, but I thought that one way is the best that I can not lie, I’m up all night. But then I thought that when I’m going to be so tired that I’m not going to be able to carry out the following day. – With the impact it made.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – The car was back half past eleven?
Comment from Dennis VG Ravndal: Breivik explains in the same quiet, conversational tone of his thoughts on the morning of 22 July. He said he thought “this is the day I’m going to die.” – I was not too keen on dying, says Breivik.
Behring Anders Breivik: – I had to make some preparations for that night. I thought that I can not lie now, but I can not complete unless I sleep. So I decided to sleep.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – So you stood up, what happened next?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I do not remember exactly what I did in the beginning … [Interrupted]
prosecutor Svein Holden: – It is the least activity on your computer.
Behring Anders Breivik: – I started to upload the movie, but had major problems with it. It meant I lost some time. Once that was done, I knew it was time to deploy the first car. So when I went in civilian clothes, went over to the Doblo, placed the primary and secondary landing and drove to the Doblo Hammersborg square. – And then it was probably at around noon. Also, I went past the ministries and reconnaissance for the last time, and took a taxi to Hoff Road.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What kind of reconnaissance were you doing then?
Comments from VG Morten Hopperstad: A custody enters the room 250 and switch places with a colleague.
Behring Anders Breivik: – I then simply whether it was possible to drive into the parking lot. So I took a taxi to Hoff Road from Stortorvet and when I was at Skøyen maybe half a year and then remained late. It was the dispatch of the compendium. So it took a lot longer than I thought because I wrote the last update and tried to remove part of the cover stories. The Kautokeino including the only cover. It was something I had not had time to remove. I did the latest updates and sent it off. I had big problems with sending and I got lots of error messages. I came into a situation where I was extremely frustrated. – So in the end I noticed that a bulk e-mail addresses went through. So I decided that I had to send away the other 12 to 13 dents, total of 8,000 e-mails, so I had to almost drag. Outlook was working and when I went, and it ruined my plan to destroy the hard disk so that the police got it. But I had no choice, I had to leave the machine. Went over to the car (the road). – It was three o’clock, I think. When I went in civilian clothes to the car with a big bag, I think. Or so I already had the equipment in the back of Craft coach. So I went into the craft behind the coach, skftet to the police uniform and armor, and sat down and started to run to the government quarter. – And when the time was about three. Do you want me to tell … [Holden: - Yes, just keep] So I came to Skøyen and so it was a police roadblock. It was apparently a trailer that had driven off the road, I had logos that could be identified. The helmet was lying next to me.
Behring Anders Breivik: – So I came to the front of the courthouse. When I came I to the first point where I could not run anymore because the entrance which was forbidden. When I broke the ban and there had been police cars there when they could stop me, but I was prepared for it.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – How were you prepared for it?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I was armed and I had the armor and I was not going to let me stop. So I’d probably just run on. If they had run after me, so I had lit the fuse much closer, and that is passed back, detonated it while I was in the car, to protect it. – If something skjeddde, but it was not [pause while he drinks water]. And when we come to a point where you’ve shown the film that we saw a couple of days ago.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – How did the sequence here. What were you thinking?
Behring Anders Breivik: – When you get to the point when you see the car stopped, I stopped to mount the blue light and I was supposed to put on PST logos in four places. But then I decided to just put on the blue light and drop the logos. Then I thought that I will die in exactly two minutes, but then I thought that I’m fucking little keen to die now. – At the time, then the reflection my brain disconnected, so I acted very instinctively after that point, and that is why I have forgotten a lot after that point. It is the cause of it. – So when I run up to the government quarter and sees that the angle I was going to park in, was not possible. I had made a shaped charge.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Was there any car on the right side? [Breivik said that yes there think he]
Comment from Dennis Ravndal VG: He takes a short break while he drinks water, before saying that he was prepared to protect the bomb with his life after having lit the fuse, if someone stopped him.
Comments from VG Morten Hopperstad: Breivik repeats what he has explained to police that a car parked outside the high-rise building prevented him to park the way he had planned. – The bomb was therefore less powerful since it was built so that the pressure wave was supposed to go in a certain direction, says Breivik.
Behring Anders Breivik: – I had made the charge so that the pressure wave would be greater if the car was parked in a special way, and the car standing destroyed the opportunity and the bomb was apparently much less severe because I had to park the car like that. Lit the fuse in there, so I thought that now it comes out four armed people. Then I saw none. So I locked the car also went away, which I had simulated the past. I had not done it if I had not really trained for it, examined it at least 20 times. Had I not had the training, I would not have done it.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What kind of training do you think then?
Behring Anders Breivik: – There are really only simulation … What should I do when I park the car. The plan was actually to use the support vehicle in the rear. I was running a mini bike that was strapped firmly placed in the rear. – The basis for the plan were three bomb cars and I thought it was not necessary now. Then I could just go over to the other car. Then I decided to drop that plan and just go away, and then just went away. – I remember very little, I acted instinctively. I met a man I considered a threat. I thought that if he is from the monitoring center and if he tries to attack or hold me tight, I would shoot for. But it did not happen, so I walked right past him.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – And then you put yourself into the Doblo. What happened next?
Behring Anders Breivik: – [Breivik drink more water] I’ve been told that apparently, when I came to Hammersborg square … [Interrupted by Holden] – I have been told that when I came to Hammersborg I met a woman who I asked to go out of its ministries. I have no memory of it was when the reflection brain was disconnected.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – When you say that the reflection brain was disconnected, what does it mean?
Behring Anders Breivik: – So when this is the theory in psychiatry, but there are many psychiatrists who believe that when one is existentially threatened, so taking over the amygdala, that is a special part of the brain that makes you act instinctively. When you are in that mode, it stops your brain reflection, and then there are some considerations that you take, including ethical. – And when you act instinctively. When you are in that mode, there is much you do not remember. And based on that theory, I do not remember much.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What happened when you got to the car?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I went into the car and checked if anyone was following me. It was not, and I would have pre-set at P4, for I knew that they have news updates that break into the programs. So I started to run. Two boxes fell down behind, and they made a very trouble. But they had fallen down because of the pressure wave. Then I realized that the detonation had occurred. – Also there was an update on P4 after one or two minutes, which stated that there had been a detonation at Youngstorget, and shortly after it was ahead of its ministries, and after 10 minutes approximately, so there was a message that the entrance to the Government buildings had collapsed and that at least one person was killed. – And at that point I thought, “Now the operation is a failure” because the building did not collapse, or rows of support pillars had collapsed. Then I saw it as a failure. – Then I decided that it was necessary to conduct the entire operation.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – If you had the radio on the way out to Utøya or? Did you get any new updates along the way? [Breivik: Yes, I did.] What updates then?
Behring Anders Breivik: – The last I heard was that there was a car bomb had gone off, and that it was an expert who explained that this was a revenge attack after Osama Bin Laden was dead, and that there was a person who was killed.
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna: Holden asks Breivik what he perceived on the car radio before he started shooting massacre. He says that he heard an expert who stated that it was a revenge attack for the killing of Osama bin-Laden and that one had died.
Behring Anders Breivik: – So I parked on a plot near nedkjørselen.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What did you do on the site?
Comment from Dennis VG Ravndal: Several of the family sitting with his head in his hands while listening Breivik speak. There is a pressure atmosphere in the courtroom today, both inside the hall and press rooms.
Anders Breivik Behring – I knew from previous studies that the ferry named Thorbjorn went every hour, and I was there about quarter past four. I thought that now I did not have the ferry, so I have to wait for five of five, because I can not risk that I have to wait on the pier in 40 minutes. Then people will see through the cover I have.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What did you do these 40 minutes you were on this place?
Behring Anders Breivik: – As I stood on the site, changed my equipment. I took off his flak vest and I took on a battle west instead of – as I had pre-loaded with ammunition and other equipment. It was basically what I did.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Did you hear on the radio then or?
Anders Breivik Behring – I actually do not think so. Maybe. I can not remember having done so.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – We will put a line there, Engh will take up the thread from there tomorrow. But you said you based on the messages you heard on the P4 considered the operation a failure. How do you campaign in the aftermath?
Behring Anders Breivik: – What I decided was that the criteria for the attack to be successful was that at least the outermost row of supporting pillars would collapse. It had resulted in at least 12 dead. It was the main criterion.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – When it comes to the number of fatalities that you say is twelve. How did you come up to it?
Behring Anders Breivik: – What I have explained to the police, I have studied many attacks before, and has considered media exposure based on the number of fatalities. The goal is to bring attention to the issue you’re fighting for. Unfortunately, the way society works, I had not gotten much attention if I had blown up mailbox to Big Mountain. – But, unfortunately, is that media coverage is associated with the shock of an attack.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – But this number 12, where does it come from?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It’s good I did an estimate based on some reviews.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – What thoughts do you have about this action today?
Behring Anders Breivik: – What are you thinking then?
prosecutor Svein Holden: – About NEGLIGENCE, the number who died, the number of people were injured.
Behring Anders Breivik: – As I look at 22 July it is not about me, government building or Utøya. That’s how I relate to 22 July.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Is it a little bit about those who died and those who were injured as well?
Behring Anders Breivik: – For me it is about Norway’s future and it’s about the future of Europe, and that includes our people’s future and our culture’s future.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – In relation to the government quarter, did you ever thought about the people who would die and be injured?
Behring Anders Breivik: – The aim of the attack on government building was to kill the whole government and the prime minister. – It was the primary goal of the attack in the government building. I had calculated that the probability was highest on a Monday, because I have a theory that they have a meeting every Monday. – That it would be the best day to attack and that a strong enough bomb, would the entire building collapsed. A best case scenario was that the entire government and the Prime Minister, would perish. – And everyone in the building. For the building of what would have collapsed. But for the first action was postponed …. [Interrupted by Holden]
prosecutor Svein Holden: – But employees in the building, it was a desirable goal?
Behring Anders Breivik: – So High density housing is the most attractive political target in Norway. It is known among the PST that is the most interesting political goal among politically motivated violent men. But you are talking about the employees? What can justify the state secretaries and lawyers? [Compactor and other passers-by, cyclists] – When the NATO bombing of Libya or any other goal, as they calculate to be less than 10% civilian casualties, and there are also military nationalists goals, to have the fewest civilian, preferably below 10%, and that was my goal too.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – But who is it that possesses characteristics “civilians” among people in this area?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Civilians will be people who are not affiliated with the ministries and that is random passers-by.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – So all that is associated with a ministry, was a legitimate goal, is it to understand?
Behring Anders Breivik: – In the description that is in the compendium, they are judged differently, as you have mentioned earlier, but our goal as a whole is a legitimate target.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Who has decided that it is a legitimate target?
Behring Anders Breivik: – In this context, it is my decision.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – But it is contrary to the compendium?
Behring Anders Breivik: – No, it does not. It is the most attractive desktop political target in Norway.
Behring Anders Breivik: – There is not a goal in Norway that are more attractive. The reason for this is that almost no shops, cafes, virtually no civilian passers-by.
Comment from Dennis VG Ravndal: Breivik explains with quiet but dedicated voice about how he does not want to hit civilian targets. Political activists are nothing, he said.
Behring Anders Breivik: – The goal of al-Qaeda is to kill many innocent people. They had put the car outside GlasMagasinet or Oslo City. But it is unacceptable to kill innocent civilians. The goal is political activists.
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna: She wonders who the civilians. According to Breivik there are those who are not political activists. – So there are only two categories, ask Engh.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – But are employees of the Ministry necessarily political activists?
Behring Anders Breivik: – They are affiliated with the Ministry and it is not they who are the primary target, but it is a consequence of an attack against a primary target.
prosecutor Svein Holden: – Then at least I have come so far I’ve been thinking, but I see that Engh is a follow-up questions?
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – You are talking about civilians today. Those who do not fall in the category civil what are they?
Behring Anders Breivik: – There are political activists.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – Do we have only two groups to relate to, there are civil and political activists?
Behring Anders Breivik: – As I have described it in the compendium, I have categorized in three groups to try to explain it. (ABC) – All these are legitimate goals, there are approximately 90,000 category-C traitors suitable as indirect targets. – All these go under the category of political activists.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – Which group would I fall? [Breivik: - You would not have been on the list.] Am I civil?
Behring Anders Breivik: – With political activists, I mean journalists, academics and politicians who actively work for a multicultural goals.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – How can you determine which category they’re in?
Behring Anders Breivik: – If you attack a political party, a congress, for example, it’s a gathering place for a certain type of person. If there is a nursery, there is something else. It is easy to make a difference on what’s appointment goals and not.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – But anyway, that is, if you have a journalist who is far out on the right side, there will be an enemy to you, or? Breivik: You know, a hundred percent, all news agencies in Norway supports multiculturalism in Norway. There is not a journalist that does not support multiculturalism.
Behring Anders Breivik: – That is, these so called journalists, they are political activists. For a journalist to call himself so, he must be objective. They support multikulturisme.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – One thing I noticed, you spoke just now that at some point 22 July do you remember so well from. Which word did you used?
Behring Anders Breivik: – What I mentioned, there is a theory that many psychiatrists support, and that was what I was talking about.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – But you said it happened when you were existentially threatened, and then I wonder – who were you threatened by the 22 July?
Behring Anders Breivik: – What happens if you are in a situation where you’re going to die in two minutes. I think probably everyone in my situation had ended up in a biological mode where you act instinctively. – You can simulate as much, but you’ll never be able to simulate it. So it is impossible to predict. It’s something I have described in retrospect and I support the theory that many psychiatrists support.
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna Breivik explains how he was preparing to kill. And says that psychiatrists can certainly say something about it. – Yes, we have quite a few of them here, so they can certainly say something about the future, said Inga Bejer Engh, referring to the table in front Breivik, where four of the leading psychiatrists say directly closely together to determine the defendant’s mental health.
Behring Anders Breivik: – Yes, now we have many psychiatrists here, so we can listen to the later. But you say that just 22 July, is there anything you do not remember because “I feel threatened.” But I wonder what it is you are threatened by?
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – I think you misunderstood me. I say that your body and your brain feel that you are existentially threatened, it does not mean that someone is threatening you.
Behring Anders Breivik: – It happened to me. It is against your own will.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – But what or who is threatening you that day?
Behring Anders Breivik: – You fall into that mode if your body feel existentially threatened, for example.
Comments from VG Jarle Brenna: She wonders what Breivik the word “simulation” which he uses often when he talks about how he prepared to carry out terrorist attacks.
Behring Anders Breivik: – The situation I’ve been in I’ve been twice in my life. The first time was at the government building, the other time was when I released the first shot on the pier at Utøya.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – But how do you in that situation, you say you have to feel threatened to get in that situation. Had the opportunity to say “No, I just drop it, I go home.” – And what threatened you?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I have not said that some have threatened me, I’ve said that your brain perceives that you are threatened.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – Your brain perceived that you were threatened. Was it real? – Was it real?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Now we are talking about how the brain works. You’ll have to talk to psychiatrists. [Engh - This was your feelings, how you experienced that day?] Breivik: Yes, among other things.
Comment from Dennis VG Ravndal: Breivik describes to judge Arntzen he runs called Bushido meditation to clear their feelings. Otherwise he would not be able to carry as this trial, says Breivik.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – We are concerned about how you felt that day, how did it this time? [Breivik: - That we will probably elaborate on later.] Yes, we can get more into that tomorrow.
Behring Anders Breivik: – That we will probably more into. [The judge asks what Breivik mean by simulation] – A so-called suicide attack, you can hammer away your fears through various drills. Although used Bushido – meditation to displace fear. It affects the whole emosjonsjonsspekteret. If you use it over a year or two you will be off emosjonalisert. You get a dødsforrakt. And for me it’s something I depend on to, for example, be able to conduct this trial, so I meditate daily.
Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen: – Are there things we come back later or …? This is the simulation? Is this something you come back to later?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I started this in 2006 when I decided to do what I should do. I have described it in detail in the compendium.
Judge Wenche Arntzen Elizabeth: – Is this a daily occurrence?
Behring Anders Breivik: – In the beginning I did it every other day, and last year I have probably done it every day.
Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen: – And that is something you continue – until now?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I do it maybe not every day. But at least every other day.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – What would it be gone if you did not. Would you sit here now?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It is a good question. [Engh: - Would you failed, then, Breivik] Maybe. – Firstly, if you normalize your emosjonsspekteret, you are more emotional.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – You showed emotion when we showed this film. What did not work then?
Behring Anders Breivik: – I think I just had not prepared me for that movie, and it is actually the songs I use in meditation. The meditation is based on that I simulate this video. I see the video in my head.
Comment from Dennis VG Ravndal: – It is a good question, says Breivik. Asked by Engh about what went wrong when he began to cry, thinking about Breivik quickly. He explains that the two songs used in the youtube video he uses even when he meditates. He was not prepared for it to be so strong, he said.
Behring Anders Breivik: – There are two primary songs, one is [song name] and the second is Helene Bøksle its “ERE the world crumble”.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – But how does this help you?
Anders Breivik Behring – I experimented with it. What kind of music that works and not. I have tried everything from trance music. There are some specific songs that you can use for this purpose.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – How does it help you? What is it about music that helps you, that makes you sit here now?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It is a type of meditation that helps you suppress your fears. – It affects emsjonsspekteret. You avemosjonaliserer yourself.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – Do you think that if you had not been able to use this method. Would you managed to show empathy and compassion with others then?
Behring Anders Breivik: – So, you want to be careful to say empathy and compassion for others. You use it very subjective. It is not very compassionate for others to deconstruct their own culture and group. It depends on the worldview. One who is a humanist has a different worldview than another person. – Now you’ll get to be judge of worldviews.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – But I just ask: Do you consider yourself an empathetic person?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Yes, absolutely. I admit that I through the meditation has helped turn me off-emosjonalisert.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – How does your empathy is?
Behring Anders Breivik: – Now go into a very extensive discussion. So perhaps we can take it another … When I’m not so tired. [Engh: - Do you think it is a difficult question?] It is a broad question.
prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: – You’d rather not answer that now?
Behring Anders Breivik: – It is such an important question that I think it is “fair” that you take it when I’m not as tired as I am now.
Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen: – As I understand it that we are approaching a rettsdag ended. Then the court adjourned.
VG: – Breivik carried out after browsing through his papers. He shut down a few words with Lippestad on the way out. The two are surrounded by very many police officers….
Original article: Dag 4, ord for ord: Breivik hevder han er empatisk